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  1. #11
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    ISFJ = NOT.

    That's based on (1) my living with an ISFJ for 18 years, (2) my own "inner ISFJ" [my tertiary and inferior are SiFe], and (3) all the private discussions we've had where you've criticized [kindly] my xSFJ-style behaviors.

    I don't really have an issue with INFJ reading. I'm not sure it's correct, but I have trouble thinking of something that fits better. And environment and upbringing always impact type expression and development, and you've relayed your background to me in PM. I have yet to see the total impact of that upbringing on your type, but I have no doubt it's had some impact.

    We have discussed the Te/analytical nature you tend to use. But other INFJs (like Toonia) also can be very analytical and detached in their daily conversation and have developed it strongly, so I do not see an issue with that as much either.

    I would probably consider the possibility (if I were in your shoes) that your "robotic-style analysis" ability is actually more of an outfit you wear in order to act in the world safely, rather than particularly being the "instinctive" you... but that is just a guess on my part, and it's something that has been developing a long time and seems very much a part of you now. (Just food for thought.)
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  2. #12
    Dhampyr Economica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I would probably consider the possibility (if I were in your shoes) that your "robotic-style analysis" ability is actually more of an outfit you wear in order to act in the world safely, rather than particularly being the "instinctive" you...
    I would consider that possibility too.

  3. #13
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Well, I'm not sure that the robotic analysis thing really applies to my public behavior. In public, I behave in a very formal and polite manner. Here's a message I got from a friend once (although between you and me, I think she's weird):

    I know you are standoffish during class, but I also know it isn't because you don't like me. Like you said, you are formal, and that's okay. I remember the conversations you've had about 80s music and such; that helps with the friendly aspect. It isn't that people dislike you, it's that you don't give us enough information to like you. It's just a shell thing. Your shy, you don't want anyone to dislike you, and that's okay. I dont know the exact quote but bsicaly someone said if no one dislikes you, you havent accomplished anything. I have many people at that school who dislike me because i tell them my opinions and i tell them the truth. I try not to be fake and a people pleaser, and that just makes people mad sometimes. who cares!! be yourself, dont let anyone judge you EVER. and if they do, you don't have to accept that judgement based on the source.

    take risks! you have nothing to lose. honestly--think about it.

  4. #14
    Dhampyr Economica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by athenian200 View Post
    Here's a message I got from a friend once:


    That's a friend you want to keep!

  5. #15
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Economica View Post


    That's a friend you want to keep!
    Unfortunately, I already lost this friend several months ago. Our thinking styles were so different that we eventually couldn't communicate with criticizing one another. A pity, I think.

  6. #16
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by athenian200 View Post
    Unfortunately, I already lost this friend several months ago. Our thinking styles were so different that we eventually couldn't communicate with criticizing one another. A pity, I think.
    Which is too bad, like Eco said and you have just said. This friend seemed brave enough to give you good advice or an alternate way of looking at things. Many people are too scared to be that direct.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  7. #17
    Dhampyr Economica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Which is too bad, like Eco said and you have just said. This friend seemed brave enough to give you good advice or an alternate way of looking at things.
    *walks away from thread muttering something about CC*

  8. #18
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Which is too bad, like Eco said and you have just said. This friend seemed brave enough to give you good advice or an alternate way of looking at things. Many people are too scared to be that direct.
    Well, she was probably an EN_P. Ne dominants are too random and chaotic, and I needed too much structure, and ultimately I was too boring and judgmental for her. (She also claimed I was "intense"):

    intense - strong feelings about EVRYTHING, strong language used, extreme opinions
    I've tried to eliminate some of the more poisonous FJ-ish behaviors from my personality since then, though. Here's one of the worst e-mails I ever sent anyone, and ironically they forgave me, even though the friend above didn't, despite the lack of such an argument. After she admitted to having been to a party with young people who consumed alcohol, and having driven them home on several occasions, I sort of lambasted her.

    This is the law's space. If the law finds out that your parents let you get away with this sort of behavior, they could go to prison too. And you know what? I think they ought to! I'm assuming? You are aiding criminals, and justifying it with something terribly petty! I wish you, and your stupid parents, and stupid friends, would all wind up in the jailhouse, where you belong! If people like you were off the streets, this country would be a better place for the decent folk, who observe the law! Good day, Ms. XXXXX! I hereby denounce you, and everything that you and your worthless friends stand for. I hope they betray you. I'm not your friend anymore, and I'm not friends with YYYY or ZZZZ, and if they tell TTTTT about this, perhaps not her either. You've made my life a living hell. You should have told me what sort of a sick freak you were before you became my friend. I hope you are happy with yourself.
    Can you imagine an extremely angry and/or immature FJ saying that? At this point, I really can't believe I said something like that, but that was over two years ago, and I've been thinking more deeply since then.

  9. #19
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by athenian200 View Post
    ptgatsby only said he believed I was an SJ, but didn't say which one. There are four SJ types. (I'd like to hear the rest of that, actually.)
    One thing to remember is that I don't use attitudes or hierarchies to determine types. I see each letter as a trait on its own; in short, I don't believe in MBTI the way you do.

    There is no question in my mind that you are a J. The need for categorization, etc comes across so strongly that you either have some serious split sub-traits or I just can't read it online. Likewise, you have a harder time with holding any form of duality (ie: all expressed traits should belong to a single trait - I've noted that you often comment on not understanding how a (x) could be like (y).)

    The N/S divide I'm not as sure over. The reason why I believe it is S over N, in particular S-J over N, is because of your FFM score, the interest in languages and structured systems and more than anything else, the same thing that I noted in myself - open to ideas, but not in the abstract/imaginative way. As such, I think you test "intelligent", which is a key part of being N (it shoudn't be, but it is), but not much of the rest.

    As for the other traits, I don't see any reason not to believe you are an ESFJ, although you don't seem to reflect the ESFJs I know... but to be fair, the ESFJs I know were smart, but not smart. And of course, ESFs are prone to being neurotic, which you don't strike me as overly so - that could be it as well.

    But honestly, does it matter what type you are? If you can't determine your type, I think it speaks more on the limitations of the system than yourself. You don't need to fit in anywhere.

  10. #20
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by athenian200 View Post
    Can you imagine an extremely angry and/or immature (or both) FJ saying that?
    Yes. Definitely -- INFJ or otherwise.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

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