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  1. #31
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by athenian200 View Post
    Above average? How did you decide what is average regarding S's?
    Whenever I say these things, I mean it literally, although I did forget to specify I was talking g loaded IQ this time

    What exactly do you mean "integration of my world with beliefs?" I don't understand. Could you elaborate?
    It'd take me a long time to go back over the posts to exemplar everything, however in general I find that the things you support and how you support it to be more S than N. naturally, I'm not actually for typing online - it was more that my impression through reading all your posts is that you are very likely to be a S, except that you would be generally different, as above.

    It's just that I think if you were an S, you would have been 'tuned in' to the reality all along. I believe it's reasonable to think that you're beginning to see yourself as S because you're starting to develop it now, and you're beginning to wake up to what effect your previous neglect of your Sensing side (maybe your Feeling side as well) might have had on others. When I was reading your blog, I noticed also that a few of the things you related to Sensing actually seemed related to Feeling as well (The impact of caring about a person's situation is Feeling, not Sensing. Caring at all about someone you've never seen face-to face hints strongly at N.) Perhaps your perception changed because you're developing those functions?
    Good points, actually. I'll think on them.

    However, just to clear up the "impact" comment about Sahara's post - I have always had moderate empathy, so that wasn't something new. If you go back over my 2000+ posts, the vast majority of them are towards helping people, although around here it has taken on a very different tone. In any case, I've always been like that.

    The impact factor only came in when it was acknowledged, same as the compliment posts... namely those that said it has an influence on them. The actual reaction towards helping only started with influence - impact on the other person.

    Look, I'm not trying to be mean, I'm just pointing out an alternative perspective here.
    Honestly, I don't think there is anything you could say that I'd consider mean. I don't think there is a question I won't answer - time being the main reason I don't do thousand word posts all the time. I don't like answering if I won't have time to do research, but that's been the case lately. I don't like the back and forth without the time to support what I say.

    How do you know it's N's that have arrogance against grounded knowledge? Isn't it usually SJ type people who want to do things the same way they've always done them, and disregard new data or trends so they can cling to traditions that might hurt people?
    If you are really curious, it's based upon taking everyone I know that has been typed, then grouping them together and looking at the common factors. Ns just don't ground themselves well - INTJs to ENFPs. There is a large degree of what that amounts to, but taking the same positions (at work) with the two groups separated, that's the common link... the P/J thing too plays a part in 'grounded', but it has more to do with planning and implementation.

    The problem I have is that we stereotype SJs from theory, not from practise. We take a mixture of traits and generalise them... but then we expect everyone to fit in them. It's one thing to say that 90% of SJs would rather go with some major tradition and hurt someone than otherwise... but it's another thing to generalise it without the grounding to see if that is actually correct.

    Reality -> Theory -> Validation. When validation fails, we go back to theory. With no validation, the theory self-improves itself without the bounds of reality.

    (Remember your concerns about the diamond ring?)
    Yup...? I'm not sure how the two major factors here suggest INTP, however... 1) The moral reasons and 2) The impact on my budget.

    I was willing to accept it if someone could justify it... but no one could justify the diamond on grounds I would accept.

    Also, don't typical SP's have to learn everything by first hand experience, rather than via books?
    Based upon? Also, that was my normal mode of operation for most of my life - it changed in my childhood when I was bullied and driven to books and computers.

    The main reason I say this is because I would rather read about something than do it or see it.
    In this we differ. even when I was working on the computer, I was trying to create. 3d modelling to programming, I've done it all. I was not, however, really into it - it was me trying to escape.

    Then FPS came out, then RTS... it was over after that (Also, to note, I have an SP family and SP friends, all of which are all across the spectrum on reading and doing... likewise at work. Also note that Ss dominate the field of programming and the like. It's too easy to find side-tracks to justify these errant behaviours, such as "of course programmers are Ss because (x), but in general, Ss don't like computers!".

    I like to study language, and learn new words.
    That's actually not abnormal for SJs, FWIW. I don't know exactly where the population lies, but language is a very structured thing. It's my weak point, if you talk about aptitudes, however.

    I'll stop questioning your type if it makes you uncomfortable, I'm just trying to understand your reasoning. I'm interested.
    Not at all. I wish I could write everything that made me think it over, but that'd take hours, if not days. After the first joke about it, I spent a whole lot of time going over my childhood, looking at the results at work, looking for other demographic information on ISTPs/INTPs and how ISTPs perform in the corporate world.

    It quickly turned from a joke into something I had to take seriously. Even after stepping away and trying to do it in reverse, it just didn't stick as well.


    Seriously, though, whether you're an N or S, you're still an interesting person, and I'm glad to have made your acquaintance.
    The pleasure is all mine... although deep inside, I hope that most people don't pre-judge based upon the N/S divide - or any divide... but I fear that is not the case.

    (This post as over 1100 words. I

  2. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername View Post
    yeah. i think the "disappearing" thing is my fave. i totally do that. whoops.
    That's a trademark of mine, too. I'll have lapses of weeks or months where I won't talk to people I consider friends, and I don't think anything of it. But they sure do. One of my ex-girlfriends used to call it "going into his cave".

  3. #33
    heart on fire
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    The problem I have is that we stereotype SJs from theory, not from practise. We take a mixture of traits and generalise them... but then we expect everyone to fit in them. It's one thing to say that 90% of SJs would rather go with some major tradition and hurt someone than otherwise... but it's another thing to generalise it without the grounding to see if that is actually correct.

    Why do you assume this? What about those of us who know SJ's in our real offline life?

  4. #34
    Dhampyr Economica's Avatar
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    Quick post before work:

    (My vanity is loving this attention. )

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Well, if I should clarify:
    - I'm picking up much more Te than Ni
    - There's a focus on specific detail that I see more from an S than an N. (I live with two S's and there's a notable difference.)
    - Neither INTJ or ESTJ lets bullshit get by. They both are good at that.
    - I see much more dogged fighting over small unimportant details in a conflict than an INTJ usually bothers with. (They tend to be better at letting go of the unimportant issues.)
    - INTJs usually don't care about policy, except when convenient; but having the groundrules specified in very clear detail seems very important to Eco, and she then follows them to a T.
    My initial reaction to your apparently serious ESTJ typing was but then I did some while and though apparently I cannot doubt my INTJ-ness (I tried), I at least see where you are coming from.

    I police this board against what I perceive as bad behavior which is very ESTJ. However, as proteanmix touches on, you have to look at the nature of the bad behavior I pounce upon (this is where I got into microanalysis of exchanges in our mails...) as well as at my motivation. I'll write more about this tomorrow.

    Apart from the microanalysis of exchanges I can get into (<INTJ whine> in order to make myself understood *stomps* (BTW we should see if the other INTJs follow me there - let's PM about a possible publication)), what other detail do you find me to be focused on?

    As proteanmix also points out, the importance of the issues I fight over is debatable. A conflict you see as trivial I see as representative of how moderation works here at MBTIc, which impacts the wiggle room I feel I have and thus has consequences for my overall behavior. I have said nothing to make you believe that I will respect an authority that makes rules I disagree with (); I have simply faced the reality (maybe I'm an SP? ) that I probably won't be convincing anyone who doesn't a priori sympathize with my unorthodox () view of optimal moderation.

    (Incidentally, the incident yesterday ended up being resolved to my complete satisfaction by being moved to The Graveyard; go mods! )

    Regarding my (ab)use of smileys (mentioned elsewhere), I refer to this exchange:

    Quote Originally Posted by Economica View Post
    Okay, so I thought my avatar was arbitrarily chosen. I've just realized it isn't (either that, or I'm using it as a Rorschach ink blot):

    I should have said like cafe: Mine is cold and pompous, like me only I'm neither that cold nor that pompous.

    Seriously, isn't an INTJ the most likely type to choose something subtly Stalinist for an avatar?
    Quote Originally Posted by Natrushka View Post
    I suspect your liberal use of smileys in that post negates some of the Stalinisim, Economica.
    Quote Originally Posted by Economica View Post
    Whaddya think I use them for?

  5. #35
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Hi, Economica. Glad you chimed in on this discussion. I'm honestly more than a little confused as to how anyone could think you're an ESTJ. ISTJ, maybe, but I really haven't been totally convinced of the T, and I'm not sure why everyone else sees it (You seem rather concerned with manners, your membership within a group and such. That seems very much like Feeling to me. And I've also seen no reason to doubt your Intuition preference, although a lot of people seem to be doing so.)

    So, ptgatsby, do you pretty much agree with the rest of my type, the IxFJ part?

  6. #36
    Pareo cattus Natrushka's Avatar
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    I just can't get past the smileys! <snort>

    It must be an online personality vs. offline personality situation.

    This signature left intentionally blank.

    Really.

  7. #37
    On a mission Usehername's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Natrushka View Post
    I just can't get past the smileys! <snort>

    It must be an online personality vs. offline personality situation.
    I use smilies b/c they're more efficient in text communication rather than constantly explaining feelings with words.
    *You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.
    *Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason once accepted, despite your changing moods.
    C.S. Lewis

  8. #38
    Pareo cattus Natrushka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername View Post
    I use smilies b/c they're more efficient in text communication rather than constantly explaining feelings with words.
    FTR, I was referring specifically to Eco and her post above. I've never thought you weren't an INTJ primarily because I a) haven't seen much from you by way of posts (you've been 'disappeared' until recently) and b) I don't typically wonder if so and so isn't what they say.

    This signature left intentionally blank.

    Really.

  9. #39
    Senior Member raincrow007's Avatar
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    Bah.

    I thought this was going to be a thread about Umberto Eco.

    Pity.


  10. #40
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername View Post
    I use smilies b/c they're more efficient in text communication rather than constantly explaining feelings with words.
    Yup. It's shorthand. And some of them are quirky enough to appeal to me.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

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