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  1. #51
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 01011010 View Post
    We've already had threads on this issue, so I'm not going to go into depth here. All I'm going to say is this:

    It would be much better if those statistics compared apples to apples. Instead, they compare women and men that are not comparable. The reasons women are paid less is because they typically work fewer hours and they get pregnant (which requires a leave of absence). When equivalent groups of men and women are compared (same level of experience, education, dedication, etc), they're equal.

    This is not to say there aren't instances of discrimination. There are and always will be, but those instances are statistically negligible. Articles like the one you linked are so misleading, they're borderline fraudulent.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    ...
    There has been research that took everything you mentioned into account. A difference still exists, even if it's slight. Either way, statutory limitations period has been amended.

    Obama Signs Lilly Ledbetter Act | 44 | washingtonpost.com


    The Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act passed the Senate, 61-36, on January 22, 2009. The votes in favor included every Democratic senator (except Edward Kennedy of Massachusetts, who was absent from the vote because of health issues) and all four female Republican senators. Except for Pennsylvania's Arlen Specter, who voted for it, every male Republican senator voted against it.

    GovTrack: Senate Vote On Passage: S. 181: Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act of 2009
    If discrimination truly wasn't as prominant as you claim, why would all male republican senators vote against it, with the exception of one?

  3. #53
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 01011010 View Post
    There has been research that took everything you mentioned into account. A difference still exists, even if it's slight. Either way, statutory limitations period has been amended.

    Obama Signs Lilly Ledbetter Act | 44 | washingtonpost.com
    So you knew that previous link was comparing apples to oranges.

    If discrimination truly wasn't as prominant as you claim, why would all male republican senators vote against it, with the exception of one?
    Perhaps it has nothing to do with gender. This specific issue was discussed in another thread. Femme Urbane brought it up in one of the Obama threads.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    So you knew that previous link was comparing apples to oranges.

    Perhaps it has nothing to do with gender. This specific issue was discussed in another thread. Femme Urbane brought it up in one of the Obama threads.
    It was a bit propaganda laden, but I find that to be true of any side in the majority of issues. Considering it's a gender focused amendment, it logically can't be about anything else. What is the purpose of denying an extended time period?

  5. #55
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 01011010 View Post
    It was a bit propaganda laden, but I find that to be true of any side in the majority of issues. Considering it's a gender focused amendment, it logically can't be about anything else.
    It couldn't be about overloading the court system with frivolous lawsuits? It couldn't be about protecting existing jobs (companies that are sued will have less money to pay existing employees)?

    I don't necessarily agree with their stance because I don't know enough specifics to take a stance. But I can see many possible reasons, besides misogyny, that prompted Republicans to vote against the bill.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    It couldn't be about overloading the court system with frivolous lawsuits?
    If you think discrimination doesn't really exist in high numbers, then why would the courts become "overloaded with frivolous law suits"?

  7. #57
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 01011010 View Post
    If you think discrimination doesn't really exist in high numbers, then why would the courts become "overloaded with frivolous law suits"?
    Because people are told they're being discriminated against, even when they're not. There's so much propaganda out there about gender and wages, I'm certain there are many women who will sue simply because they're paid less, even though the reasons behind their lower are totally related to productivity/experience/etc.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  8. #58
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 01011010 View Post
    If you think discrimination doesn't really exist in high numbers, then why would the courts become "overloaded with frivolous law suits"?
    Frivolous lawsuits have no merit by definition, and are mostly undertaken when they intend to use the existence of perceived discrimination to give merit to the accusation.



  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Because people are told they're being discriminated against, even when they're not. There's so much propaganda out there about gender and wages, I'm certain there are many women who will sue simply because they're paid less, even though the reasons behind their lower is totally related to productivity/experience/etc.
    It costs money to go to court. A lawyer would be able to tell if any of those obvious factors for indication of less pay were involved, and if the individual has a valid case to begin with. Obviously, variables like less hours and similar, aren't credible. It's irrational to think a great number of unsubstantiated cases will actually see the light of a court.

    Honestly, professional females will benefit more from the amendment than the majority of the female population. Sounds harsh, but it's true.

  10. #60
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 01011010 View Post
    It costs money to go to court.
    It costs money to retain a lawyer regardless of whether or not you go to court. In the other discussion of this issue I mentioned that the biggest winner in all of this is lawyers.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

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