User Tag List

First 91011

Results 101 to 108 of 108

Thread: FEMALES!!!

  1. #101
    RETIRED CzeCze's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    MBTI
    GONE
    Posts
    9,051

    Default

    (Erina, oh yeah conventional gay boy culture is hella catty)

    Hmmm...so I haven't seen instances of bi or trans-phobia as 'catty' per sae. Not that it isn't negative, just not 'catty'. I'm wondering if our definitions are different or we just happen to be in different kinds of scenes and circles? When I think of 'catty' I think gay boy culture or general bitchiness.

    My immediate and more peripheral queer women's circles are liberal arts educated, non-profit/gov/think tank working or else professional MD/JD, straight-laced women with "a good head on their shoulders". Or else they are radical or super progressive even anarchist and journalists, artists, organizers, etc. These are basically people who mostly "know better" than to be catty and don't feel a need to do it. Sure, sometimes we talk smalk about people who know or each other when we get together, but that alone to me isn't 'catty', 'cattiness' has a particular kind of viciousness, maliciousness, or hostility to it or is like 'hissing and spitting'.

    These kind of crowds ^^ are generally not very bitchy...in fact most of the individuals I meet through those circles are pretty 'nice' and genuinely supportive of one another, local businesses, community groups, etc. Hmmm..though there is a lot of infighting amongst feminist orgs (particularly in DC but that's another thread).

    And for me personally, I feel that like attracts more like so once I meet a bonafide 'bad apple' or really catty person (generally always high femme) I avoid them. I think maybe this has helped minimize the presence of straight up catty people in my sphere? I tend to date more butch or androgynous women or genderqueer/transfolk where cattiness would not be in line with their perception of themselves or their persona.

    I also do agree that cattiness is more to be expected from high femmes, at least in my expereince. But also some older lesbians in their 40s and up - I think it's a cultural thing.

    So thinking more about conventinoal 'cattiness' -- I agree it exists in queer women's spaces and it's not utopic. And maybe I'm just better insulated from it (in which case, I'm glad!) but I still think compared to het culture it is WAAAAAY racheted down.
    “If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.” ― Oscar Wilde

    "I'm outtie 5000" ― Romulux

    Johari/Nohari

  2. #102
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    MBTI
    INxJ
    Posts
    3,917

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CzeCze View Post
    When I think of 'catty' I think gay boy culture or general bitchiness.

    I also do agree that cattiness is more to be expected from high femmes, at least in my expereince. But also some older lesbians in their 40s and up - I think it's a cultural thing.
    Our definition of cattiness is similar. Your crew is more stereotypically lesbian though. Feminists etc. Your group is more grounded and focused on female empowerment.

    The jobs are the same for my acquaintance group (dating pool). MDs, JDs, and PhDs (mostly doctors). Yet, I'm closer to Cali. We possess a different cultural emphasis. My pool generally enforces hetero-normative roles, and measures themselves with the same standards that conventional heterosexuals would. Especially, in the looks dept. Except, they're mostly high femmes that date only high femmes. So, my experience as a lesbian, has been very different from most. It comes with the territory.

  3. #103
    Senior Member FantailedWall's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    ENfP
    Enneagram
    4w5
    Socionics
    IEI
    Posts
    248

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 01011010 View Post
    Yes, and no. Bisexuals that identify themselves as completely lesbian after awhile would apply, if they get involved with certain types of lesbians. Then there are bisexuals that leave it behind altogether, or those that stay on the fringe (making their own rules).

    There are quite a few lesbians that are outright bi-phobic. You will see discrimination the longer and more exposed you become. I think it's an issue of both gay and straight people. Many on both sides seem to see it as a transition state. Yet, some lesbians will be openminded. I myself do not care if a woman is bisexual, but I know many that do. Hence, why alot of bisexuals don't assimilate into lesbian culture if they remain true to that label. By proxy, the stereotypes as well.

    As for what you quoted, I'm mostly referring to lesbians in the gay scene. The kind that define their life by being lesbian. Down to clothes, hangouts, and having a majority of gay only friends.

    Most lesbians are more low maintenance in superficial ways. Appearance, clothing, and lifestyle. Rarely the typical girly girl, but it's the emotional aspect that's more high maintenance than normal. Once you're in a lesbian inner circle for a decent amount of time, you will see what I'm talking about.

    For the record, I'm not stating this as absolute. Yet, I've observed and been involved with the community to varying extents, over the last 10 years. Patterns are patterns, and stereotypes exist in this case, with an overwhelming amount of evidence to back it up.

    That doesn't mean you shouldn't get involved. There are plenty of chill lesbians, but not usually in the scene specifically.
    Quote Originally Posted by 01011010 View Post
    What would you categorize bi and trans-phobia as?

    I know plenty of catty lesbians. I have yet to date one that wasn't to some extent. Lesbians evaluate, insult, and gossip just like most other women. Now, I will state conventionally beautiful lesbians are more prone to that behavior on a regular basis, than the others. Add wealth, success, and opportunity to increase the likelihood to a greater level.

    The real question is, are lesbians catty in an environment where they're the minority; or with people that might look down on it?

    Lesbians seem to possess a wider range of acceptance (outside society standards) in the looks department, and with becoming involved in interracial relationships. Career, income, and cultural/religious differences can be overlooked more than normal. Lesbians are generally lower maintenance. Yet, that doesn't negate catty behavior happens all the time.
    Woah. I have observed the types of behaviour you're listing, but not to a large extent. Certainly not enough to class as 'patterns'.
    I'm quite involved with the gay 'scene' - and I've found the majority are very open-minded, accepting, diverse individuals.
    - Bi/trans-phobia?! I don't think I've ever witnessed this. Not from the gay crowd, anyway!

    It's possible this comes down to cultural differences - maybe we Aussie gays are more chillax than you over in the US of A

    Quote Originally Posted by CzeCze View Post
    U-haul thing :cringe:
    People staying together in relationships that they have no business staying in because they don't even seem to like each other that much. :cringe:
    Recycling lovers :cringe: x3
    ...Observed this happening many a time, however.

  4. #104
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    MBTI
    INxJ
    Posts
    3,917

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FantailedWall View Post
    It's possible this comes down to cultural differences - maybe we Aussie gays are more chillax than you over in the US of A
    That could very well be a possibility. Australians seem more relaxed as a whole group, honestly.

    I assure you, bi and trans phobia is alive and well in the states. I think it's ridiculous, but most of the lesbians I know wouldn't touch a bisexual with a 10ft pole. At the same time, quite a few lesbians lust after straight girls they can never have for more than sex. They also tout how disgusting it is to be lumped into the same group as transsexuals. Those opinions extend far outside my own personal experiences. The prejudices are so widely known in the queer community, it was even included in many of the storylines, throughout all seasons of "The L Word". The hypocrisy is stifling.

    As a psychologically androgynous individual, that would never limit my own dating possibilities by cutting out bisexuals, I don't understand it. Why an already marginalized group would further perpetuate ignorance... It seems the queer community dislikes bisexuals and transsexuals for the same reasons heterosexuals seem to dislike the gay community as a whole. Oh, irony. You're not lost on me.


    References:


    GL vs BT

    Robyn Ochs Biphobia

    Biphobia: Fear of the Space Between Categories - Community

    Biphobia@Everything2.com

  5. #105
    Senior Member FantailedWall's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    ENfP
    Enneagram
    4w5
    Socionics
    IEI
    Posts
    248

    Default

    Gosh.
    Just finished reading the articles and that's it - gosh.

    I can now say that I guess I've experienced this phenomenon - but to a much milder degree than is described in the articles.

    Just the whole 'she's just straight but confused/curious/will eventually be all-out gay' from friends - whether gay or otherwise. They've never bluntly said as much that I can recall - just hinted at it in jest, with me wondering just how 'jesty' it is.
    It has never been a prominent problem with partners - whether male or female - as of yet.

    'Transphobia' doesn't seem to be any kind of problem from the gay community, based on my observations. They're not treated any differently than the rest of us on the 'scene'.

    Again - it's possible this is all a cultural thing.

  6. #106
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    MBTI
    INxJ
    Posts
    3,917

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FantailedWall View Post
    Gosh.
    Just finished reading the articles and that's it - gosh.

    I can now say that I guess I've experienced this phenomenon - but to a much milder degree than is described in the articles.

    Just the whole 'she's just straight but confused/curious/will eventually be all-out gay' from friends - whether gay or otherwise. They've never bluntly said as much that I can recall - just hinted at it in jest, with me wondering just how 'jesty' it is.
    It has never been a prominent problem with partners - whether male or female - as of yet.

    'Transphobia' doesn't seem to be any kind of problem from the gay community, based on my observations. They're not treated any differently than the rest of us on the 'scene'.

    Again - it's possible this is all a cultural thing.
    The first article was comparing gays/lesbians against bi/trans in the United States specifically.

    You're very lucky. I hope for more educated understanding in the future. It really makes no sense. It's even unsettling for me to witness those attitudes among queer people I know and love.

  7. #107
    Senior Member FantailedWall's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    ENfP
    Enneagram
    4w5
    Socionics
    IEI
    Posts
    248

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 01011010 View Post
    The first article was comparing gays/lesbians against bi/trans in the United States specifically.

    You're very lucky. I hope for more educated understanding in the future. It really makes no sense. It's even unsettling for me to witness those attitudes among queer people I know and love.
    Yea, I noticed that. Very thorough - guessing at the 'phobia's' (using the term loosely, as the article does) origins in US history even.

    Lets hope I remain lucky, hmmm?
    Lets hope that Aussie queers really are all that tolerant and it's not just that I have yet to encounter these types here.
    Discrimination based on ignorance (combined with an unwillingness to change) fills me with disgust.

  8. #108
    ThatGirl
    Guest

    Default

    remember when we used to hypothetically mud wrestle?


    that was fun

Similar Threads

  1. [NF] What kind of fantasies do you female NF's have?
    By Yomama99 in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 86
    Last Post: 10-18-2008, 01:48 AM
  2. Rarest female type?
    By Economica in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 52
    Last Post: 06-26-2007, 05:51 PM
  3. For Females: Unanticipated Flattery
    By Totenkindly in forum General Psychology
    Replies: 72
    Last Post: 05-12-2007, 12:29 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO