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Thread: Diamond Rings

  1. #41
    Per Ardua Metamorphosis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cindyrella View Post
    So I was reading along, thinking about how I should respond to this discussion of rings/diamonds, when I stumbled upon this...

    ...

    If you took out the information regarding the wedding, I would almost think you were talking about a small child, not a full grown woman you intend to marry. I would never be engaged to a man who spoke of me in that fashion.
    I don't really see what you are talking about, so I'm curious how you would have worded it...

    I see, "This was a potentially important issue so I wanted to make sure we were on the same page (she understands)."
    "You will always be fond of me. I represent to you all the sins you never had the courage to commit."

    Reason is, and ought only to be the slave of the passions, and can never pretend to any other office
    than to serve and obey them. - David Hume

  2. #42
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by toonia View Post
    If my guy bought me a diamond, i'd be touched, and would reward him generously, but then have him take it back to the store.
    Toonia, you're such a riot -- I don't know anyone at all like you!

    (that is a compliment btw)

    I hate to say it, PTG, but you just buy the diamond because you... just need to buy the diamond.

    It doesn't make any sense, rationally. You will not find a justification that makes sense based on your priorities, probably.

    But because of their appearance, their past uniqueness, and what they have come to culturally represent, for whatever reason, diamonds now mean something and represent the depth and purity of the relationship and the commitment of the man to the woman.

    (It's not much different than the valentine, on another level -- a superfluous paper heart is not worth anything, technically, but it has come to represent something very profound and intangible and meaningful. And if you don't give your romantic partner a valentine, well... )

    If you can find a woman to whom it doesn't matter, then more power to you -- feel free to do whatever you like, you lucked out! -- but playing the odds, You Just Buy The Diamond.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  3. #43
    Per Ardua Metamorphosis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Toonia, you're such a riot -- I don't know anyone at all like you!

    (that is a compliment btw)

    I hate to say it, PTG, but you just buy the diamond because you... just need to buy the diamond.

    It doesn't make any sense, rationally. You will not find a justification that makes sense based on your priorities, probably.

    But because of their appearance, their past uniqueness, and what they have come to culturally represent, for whatever reason, diamonds now mean something and represent the depth and purity of the relationship and the commitment of the man to the woman.

    (It's not much different than the valentine, on another level -- a superfluous paper heart is not worth anything, technically, but it has come to represent something very profound and intangible and meaningful.)

    If you can find a woman to whom it doesn't matter, then more power to you -- feel free to do whatever you like, you lucked out! -- but playing the odds, You Just Buy The Diamond.
    I would agree completely with this post...if...you didn't feel strongly against the diamond trade (as far as mining and stuff).
    "You will always be fond of me. I represent to you all the sins you never had the courage to commit."

    Reason is, and ought only to be the slave of the passions, and can never pretend to any other office
    than to serve and obey them. - David Hume

  4. #44
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metamorphosis View Post
    I would agree completely with this post...if...you didn't feel strongly against the diamond trade (as far as mining and stuff).
    There is that.

    But that's just another type of "values" decision, then.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  5. #45
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cindyrella View Post
    If you took out the information regarding the wedding, I would almost think you were talking about a small child, not a full grown woman you intend to marry. I would never be engaged to a man who spoke of me in that fashion.
    Fair enough, I might of phrased it badly. Just for the record, I know finances and she does not, so there is an element of teacher-student present - that's probably why it came across that way. What doesn't come through is that I explain it and then we discuss it - I don't tell her. I share my practical knowledge so that we can make a decision as equals. I refuse to make a decision involving anything like this (money, marriage, etc) without working it out with her first.

    What I meant to say is that once I explained where the money was coming from, she wasn't interested in getting the expensive ring anymore. Before that she hadn't considered the impact it would have. Not that she had even thought about the ring beforehand, mind you, so it wasn't the hugest sell. The only thing we had to work through was what her family would think...

    On the subject of diamonds...I look at it this way: I don't plan on marrying anyone until he and I are both financially stable. So the affordability of the ring I want shouldn't really be that much of an issue.
    I want to be clear on this as well, in case others feel the same way. We are getting married in about 1.5 years, with me proposing sometimes around 0.5 years from now. The date was determined by when we would have paid off the mortgage. The reason we are going to have paid off the mortgage in ~3 years is because we are both disciplined and willing to make the sacrifices in the short term.

    I simply hate wasting money and I think diamonds are an utter waste of money.

    What I was asking is why anyone thinks differently.

    Also, I fail to understand why you should be so concerned what her ring preference is. Other than buying it for her, why do you care? You won't be wearing it. It will be hers, not yours, so essentially you should be more worried about getting something to satisfy her taste in jewelry, really.
    Aie. Not once in this thread did I say that this was a disagreement, that I was deciding for her or anything of the sort. I've said the absolute opposite from the start. I expressed my reasons for not wanting one, she only needed to hear the practical ones and we talked over alternatives.

    But it pains me to think of money that we spend as being her jewelry. And it pains me even more to know that I shouldn't care about what I will be buying.

    This is what happens. We will decide on the rings that we like. We will talk about the cost. We will buy what we want. And we will wear it. Perhaps I gave the wrong impression but I live what I just said - we talk everything out.




    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I hate to say it, PTG, but you just buy the diamond because you... just need to buy the diamond.

    It doesn't make any sense, rationally. You will not find a justification that makes sense based on your priorities, probably.
    Yes, I agree. Therefore I should not - that's why I'm asking for justification. I just don't understand why.

    But because of their appearance, their past uniqueness, and what they have come to culturally represent, for whatever reason, diamonds now mean something and represent the depth and purity of the relationship and the commitment of the man to the woman.

    (It's not much different than the valentine, on another level -- a superfluous paper heart is not worth anything, technically, but it has come to represent something very profound and intangible and meaningful.)
    For the record, we don't celebrate valentines. We already go out every week.

    If you can find a woman to whom it doesn't matter, then more power to you -- feel free to do whatever you like, you lucked out! -- but playing the odds, You Just Buy The Diamond.
    Did I seriously leave that much of an impression that everyone things I'm in dispute about this!? Is it so impossible that a woman would not want a diamond?

    I swear to whatever-deity-one-holds, I could never of predicted the backlash I got from this. I expected some pokes, sure, but even after I explained the situation?!

    Holy crap - I completely underestimated the power marketing has. I know everything I need to know about justifying diamonds just from this thread.

    [serious need to vent now]

    RAWWWWWWWWWW

    [/better]


    Quote Originally Posted by Metamorphosis View Post
    I would agree completely with this post...if...you didn't feel strongly against the diamond trade (as far as mining and stuff).
    Which is how I feel, but I'd do it regardless. But waste my money AND support suffering for my wedding. Yah, that's an issue to me.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    I swear to whatever-deity-one-holds, I could never of predicted the backlash I got from this. I expected some pokes, sure, but even after I explained the situation?!

    Holy crap - I completely underestimated the power marketing has. I know everything I need to know about justifying diamonds just from this thread.
    If she wants the diamond... buy the diamond.

    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  7. #47
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    There is that.

    But that's just another type of "values" decision, then.
    Seriously, can you equate;

    1) A recent marketing campaign that instilled the need for one type of gemstone

    to

    2) A war torn, slavery based method of extracting gems.

    As comparably values?!

    There are values and there are values. If a woman... if anyone... has their values in such that they value an artifically created "value" system over a real and present, continuous harm in supporting it, then they can take their twisted moral bias and marry a rich guy that uses the tatics she ignores for the glittery thing on her finger.

    :steam: [pant, pant. Ok, I'm taking a walk... I'm... taking... a... walk] There isn't much that gets me riled up, but I swear, diamonds make me emotional.

  8. #48
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    If she wants the diamond... buy the diamond.

    In case I haven't said it yet. Like a few times... She doesn't.

    (I swear, you can poke my buttons too damn well.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    Fair enough, I might of phrased it badly. Just for the record, I know finances and she does not, so there is an element of teacher-student present - that's probably why it came across that way. What doesn't come through is that I explain it and then we discuss it - I don't tell her. I share my practical knowledge so that we can make a decision as equals. I refuse to make a decision involving anything like this (money, marriage, etc) without working it out with her first.
    Ah, it makes sense now. I'm sorry if I came across as kinda harsh in my initial response. I have this tendency towards feminism...

    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    I want to be clear on this as well, in case others feel the same way. We are getting married in about 1.5 years, with me proposing sometimes around 0.5 years from now. The date was determined by when we would have paid off the mortgage. The reason we are going to have paid off the mortgage in ~3 years is because we are both disciplined and willing to make the sacrifices in the short term.
    Very smart.

    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    But it pains me to think of money that we spend as being her jewelry. And it pains me even more to know that I shouldn't care about what I will be buying.
    I don't like wasting money either, but I enjoy giving a nice gift, or splurging every once in awhile to get something I normally wouldn't. And that is really what it boils down to. Yes, you are the one buying the ring. But it's a gift. You buy gifts based on the other person's taste, not yours. Naturally your taste is going to be reflected in whatever you choose to buy, but ultimately it's not your ring. You're giving it away to her.

    Oh, and for the record, I'm one of those girls who wants a big rock. And speaking as one of those girls, I openly admit it has much to do with my value system and simple competition. I admit I look at small diamonds on other women and think, "why would she settle for that?" Or more accurately, "I would never settle for that!" My mind likes to think a bigger ring means the man considers me worth the expense. I know other women don't necessarily believe that, and my rational side tells me that I've been duped by jewelry companies into believing that. On the other hand, I really don't care. I want the big diamond and my SO understands that. There is also the understanding that if he can throw down what I consider to be unreasonable amounts of cash on his toys, he can do the same for my ring.

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