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    Default Respect for the dead = necrophilia?

    Yes, I do think that if people think having sex with the dead is sick, then that could also extend to any sort of sympathy toward the dead, since the nature of sympathy is sexual to a degree.

    Necrophilia is not always sexual in literal terms, it could also mean any sort of interest toward the dead. Therefore, people who tell me that I have no respect for the dead are necrophiliacs, for what sick bastard has respect for a rotting corpse?

    Wouldn't you say it's more important to have respect for the living than respect for the dead? I mean, after all, it is 100 percent guaranteed that the dead are not going to care if you make fun of them.

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    Senior Member Lurker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uberfuhrer View Post
    Yes, I do think that if people think having sex with the dead is sick, then that could also extend to any sort of sympathy toward the dead, since the nature of sympathy is sexual to a degree.
    I think that's a little bit of a stretch.

    What do you mean by sympathy, exactly (some examples?). And is sympathy truly sexual, even if it can be sexualized?

    I don't think being protective of corpses and/or the dead has anything to do with necrophilia.

    Wouldn't you say it's more important to have respect for the living than respect for the dead? I mean, after all, it is 100 percent guaranteed that the dead are not going to care if you make fun of them.
    I think people with normal capacity for relationships can't just "turn it off" when the people they love die. They can fully understand the person they loved is gone and this is just the corpse... yet this "shell" is the very tangible thing by which they recognized them and interacted with them. I think it is perfectly natural and healthy to be concerned about the bodies of those who die whom we have loved. People begrudgingly usually come to accept the passing and that the body IS just the body... but they still HURT and are attached to it. That's just normal human emotions at work.

    Besides, I would be more frightened of those who did not care about the dead or have respect for the bodies of the dead, and I think that sort of callous attitude more commonly has shown up in those who have proven to be antisocial types, or psychopaths, or similar. Find someone who wants to eat or have sex with the dead, and you'll find a Jeffrey Dahmer or even some more malevolent type.

    People who cannot respect the bodies of others or care for them usually show a lack of awareness of personal boundaries in general, which is likely to lead to many sorts of violations even of living people.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uberfuhrer View Post
    Necrophilia is not always sexual in literal terms, it could also mean any sort of interest toward the dead. Therefore, people who tell me that I have no respect for the dead are necrophiliacs, for what sick bastard has respect for a rotting corpse?
    This may be coming from a word having two slightly different definitions, necrophilia does directly mean "likes to have sex with dead people", and broken apart in the necro and philia means "dead liker", however, this is a case where the meanings behind words are the important parts.

    In general, I don't see where you get the "sympathy is sexual". It does have to do with having feelings of liking and/or helpfulness towards something else, but to call feelings of liking or helpfulness sexual is a big stretch.

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    I think that respect for the dead could be some kind of psycho-social natural selection at work. Having dead bodies around is a health hazard. Properly disposing them by burial or cremation reduces the health risks, so people groups with customs of "respecting" the dead via proper disposal would have a survival edge.
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    I think it comes down to respect for the dead person's relatives, a degree of sympathy that the person suffered the eventual fate which will befall us all, and a desire to not attack someone who couldn't possibly defend themselves. Sexual attraction for the rotting corpse itself doesn't come into it.
    dead man talking

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uberfuhrer View Post
    Yes, I do think that if people think having sex with the dead is sick, then that could also extend to any sort of sympathy toward the dead, since the nature of sympathy is sexual to a degree.
    The problem is, you're looking at emotion from an entirely rational perspective. Most people don't use logic to determine what is bad and repulsive and what is good and acceptable, they rely upon their gut reactions, and/or on social norms.

    Also, while I will concede that our sympathetic feelings toward others might have originally evolved from the sexual/mating drive, I believe that at this point, they are quite separate in their goals, and have diverged.

    Also, you talk about the idiocy of respect for the dead and the value of strength, yet you idolize the dead man who lost WWII, and committed suicide while cowering in hiding as his country was overtaken, instead of dying in battle. Think carefully about your own logic...

    Necrophilia is not always sexual in literal terms, it could also mean any sort of interest toward the dead. Therefore, people who tell me that I have no respect for the dead are necrophiliacs, for what sick bastard has respect for a rotting corpse?

    Wouldn't you say it's more important to have respect for the living than respect for the dead? I mean, after all, it is 100 percent guaranteed that the dead are not going to care if you make fun of them.
    Viewing something as "sick" is inherently an emotional choice, and you are entitled not to respect the dead or people who do if you don't wish to. Just as everyone else is entitled to do as they wish, to respect the dead and believe that you are heartless for not doing so. You cannot prove the validity of your emotional stance with logic, and neither can they. Personally, though, I think you're just taking this stance for shock value, or as a reactionary response to someone else's values that you feel they tried to impose on you.

    Also, I think people do respect the living more than the dead, and I agree with you that they should if they don't (although again, that is an emotional choice). We may have a single ceremony to say goodbye, but after that we incinerate or bury them, maybe bringing flowers by once a year to the stone representing them, but then we are cherishing their memory more than their body, which we aren't even looking at. We usually worry far more over the living after the initial grief is over.

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    Quote Originally Posted by athenian200 View Post
    Also, you talk about the idiocy of respect for the dead and the value of strength, yet you idolize the dead man who lost WWII, and committed suicide while cowering in hiding as his country was overtaken, instead of dying in battle. Think carefully about your own logic...
    Nah, that's just what they write in the history books. I, on the other hand, think for myself. You can't believe everything you read, I'm afraid. WWII is only officially over, not spiritually.

    And besides, suicide takes a lot of guts, wouldn't you say? In Ancient Greece, it was (supposedly) and honorable death.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uberfuhrer View Post
    Nah, that's just what they write in the history books. I, on the other hand, think for myself. You can't believe everything you read, I'm afraid. WWII is only officially over, not spiritually.

    And besides, suicide takes a lot of guts, wouldn't you say? In Ancient Greece, it was (supposedly) and honorable death.
    I guess you could say that. Okay, that at least makes some sense. Honestly, even though Hitler killed many people, I think he was a good strategist. But what about the rest of my argument?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uberfuhrer View Post
    And besides, suicide takes a lot of guts, wouldn't you say? In Ancient Greece, it was (supposedly) and honorable death.
    Suicide can either be a cowardly or a courageous act, depending on the motivations of the person involved.

    It can also be both simultaneously.
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