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  1. #41
    Senior Member Anja's Avatar
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    One more thing I forgot.

    Yes, the onus IS on the bad parent, heart. But that means absolutely zilch as far as the child's life goes after he reaches adulthood. The parent may refuse to take the onus. The parent may be punished for what he did. The parent may take responsibility for what they have done. Any number of scenarios.

    Won't change a thing for the damaged child. Not a thing.

    A wounded kid has to figure this out - that his success/failure is no longer connected to mom and dad.

    Personal freedom/personal responsibility.
    "No ray of sunshine is ever lost, but the green which it awakes into existence needs time to sprout, and it is not always granted to the sower to see the harvest. All work that is worth anything is done in faith." - Albert Schweitzer

  2. #42
    mrs disregard's Avatar
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    When I visit my dad we always talk and laugh and gossip about the family and people in the neighborhood. Our favorite thing to do is to imitate various family members. It's hilarious. We usually go out for sushi and sake. We're just a normal, close family I guess. People always think I'm his wife!

  3. #43
    Senior Member Bella's Avatar
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    Anja, I get that 100% and I agree.
    But never in a million years am I going to say that I was the problem because I didn't know how to deal with her. NEVER! She was a manipulating, controling ADULT who knew exactly which of my buttons to push to get HER emotional needs met in twisted ways. Off course I didn't know how to deal with that, I didn't have the life experience to be able to, and she relied on that.
    After the anger is dealt with and the forgiveness is done and all of those nice things, you still cannot deny the inherent wrongness of her actions and I will not take responsibility for her. I will only take responsibility to forgive, get over it and try to never do the same things.
    yesiknowimamiserablegrouchnowgoawayovmeleor

    It's Mizzz ST, thank you...

  4. #44
    Senior Member Bella's Avatar
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    I also agree with your second post, Anja, please understand that I am mostly referring to the time you did spend with that parent. I agree that once you have brains and your own life, you should do what you can to get over stuff.
    yesiknowimamiserablegrouchnowgoawayovmeleor

    It's Mizzz ST, thank you...

  5. #45
    Senior Member Anja's Avatar
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    I hear our misunderstanding, Bella. The way I first stated that sounds like I was saying I was the problem person when I lived in the home.

    No. You've got it. That's not correct. I was a child dependent on them to do the right thing. And mom did that poorly, if at all.

    And that is an important part of understanding the victim role. Initially one IS a victim. One needs to own that to move ahead. Step one. Recognizing the problem. You just don't want to stay there or you'll be a target, repeating your victimization over and over.

    I was unclearly refering to the fact that I reverted to my childhood role when I returned to my familial home. Still connected in my childstate, helpless because I hadn't figured out yet that I needed to make some changes. It was still all her fault at that point.

    Does that clear it?
    "No ray of sunshine is ever lost, but the green which it awakes into existence needs time to sprout, and it is not always granted to the sower to see the harvest. All work that is worth anything is done in faith." - Albert Schweitzer

  6. #46
    Senior Member Bella's Avatar
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    Yes, Anja, I get you. Sorry, my stupid S gets it wrong.

    Do know how I angry I got now, just writing that stuff....Ugh...Pffftt...
    yesiknowimamiserablegrouchnowgoawayovmeleor

    It's Mizzz ST, thank you...

  7. #47
    Senior Member Anja's Avatar
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    Hugsies, hugsies.

    Sorry. It's a real bitch having been a mistreated kid.
    "No ray of sunshine is ever lost, but the green which it awakes into existence needs time to sprout, and it is not always granted to the sower to see the harvest. All work that is worth anything is done in faith." - Albert Schweitzer

  8. #48
    Senior Member Bella's Avatar
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    Hugsies. And that's as soppy as I'm willing to get.
    yesiknowimamiserablegrouchnowgoawayovmeleor

    It's Mizzz ST, thank you...

  9. #49
    Senor Membrane
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    Great thread, nice stories.

    When I go to my parents I take the train south to my home town. I probably call my brother to pick me up from the station, go to my father's house. We have a meal and my father maybe asks about how things are, do I have a job already and so on. My step mother might talk a bit more about current events or something. My bro most likely looks a bit angsty because he's still living there. After the meal I walk to my mom's place few miles away. If she's not there I hang out with the cats and dog for some time. Maybe take the dog for a walk in the forest. When my mom arrives, she talks for three hours non-stop about what she's been doing. After that I might talk a while about some of my latest "studies", which means that I talk about a book I read about Kung Fu or something and she replies that it is exactly like her Chinese medicine (she's obsessed with that stuff) and usually in the end I have found some new perspectives for her to think about in things she is interested.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anja View Post
    One more thing I forgot.

    Yes, the onus IS on the bad parent, heart. But that means absolutely zilch as far as the child's life goes after he reaches adulthood. The parent may refuse to take the onus. The parent may be punished for what he did. The parent may take responsibility for what they have done. Any number of scenarios.

    Won't change a thing for the damaged child. Not a thing.

    A wounded kid has to figure this out - that his success/failure is no longer connected to mom and dad.

    Personal freedom/personal responsibility.

    Yes it will change something for the damaged child, it will give them proper perspective on a situation they were made to feel to blame for.

    Yes, they are two seperate things, but that's not what you said originally. You said the problem is with the child not the parent. The problem remains the parent, no matter what corrective steps the adult has to take to correct patterns learned from the parent. It's proper perspective. The adult has to re-learn bad patterns learned in childhood from the parent. But the problem still remains the dysfunctionalism in the parent. Yes, the child/adult has the personal choice whether they will continue that dysfunction themselves but the dysfunction comes from parent to child in families. Yes, it is the adult's personal responsibility to correct incorrect patterns of behavior learned at parent's knee but it doesn't change the fact that the patterns were learned at the parent's knee. Facts do matter and no amount of psuedo jargon can change the facts.

    You wonder why I am so firm on this? You wonder why I am not jumping for joy on the blame self band wagon? Because for years and years I've put the blame on myself for the way I reacted as child and teen to the insanity in my family and I've worked hard to gain the persepective on it. I know I'm not the only one, so I speak out against all this blame the victim twaddle whenever I see it.

    And that is an important part of understanding the victim role. Initially one IS a victim. One needs to own that to move ahead. Step one. Recognizing the problem. You just don't want to stay there or you'll be a target, repeating your victimization over and over.
    It's still not the fault of the child. It's still a toxic relationship where the parent places all the emotional buttons and such in place that are reactivated in adulthood. Sure learn about it, cope with it, stop destructive behavior patterns....but just keep a real perspective on where and how it all began and don't get into self-blame traps. No one can really re-write history. Only the furture can be changed.

    I was unclearly refering to the fact that I reverted to my childhood role when I returned to my familial home. Still connected in my childstate, helpless because I hadn't figured out yet that I needed to make some changes. It was still all her fault at that point.
    This is different from what you previously said. I agree with it. I know someone in her late 30's still dealing with uber-controlling mother. I still don't understand how she controls herself to not tell her mother to take a flying leap, except that her mother gives her sigifigant financial help.

    If you aren't clear on this kind of topic is it very easy to misunderstand you because there are people out there who really do believe in blaming the child.

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