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  1. #21
    Senior Member Bella's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anja View Post
    I learned something both amusing and disturbing from my husband after a visit to my parents home when I was in my twenties.

    He asked me if I were aware that I "revert to about fifteen years old" when we visited them. After that I started to pay attention and noticed that he was right. That was the start of learning how to have an adult relationship with my parents. And, somewhat unfortunately, having to teach them the same in reciprocation.

    It was a good thing to learn. Now I am having to learn how to be a good "parent" to my mother.

    Changes. Sigh.
    That's interesting, were they controlling parents?
    yesiknowimamiserablegrouchnowgoawayovmeleor

    It's Mizzz ST, thank you...

  2. #22
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hmm View Post
    What about Father's?
    It can come from either parent. But it seems to me, usually from mother.

    And unconditional love is essential as it enables us to get a sense of ourselves.

    Unconditional love reflects us back to ourselves. Unconditional love mirrors us. Our mother is our first mirror. It is in our mother we first see ourselves.

    Of course mother may not be an accurate mirror, and so we don't get an accurate picture of ourselves.

    So if it doesn't work out with mother, we get a second chance with a therapist.

    And as you observe, I tend to go over the top. So I went over the top and suggested your lover may be able to love you unconditionally and you he.

    But while this is possible and even desirable, it is very, very unlikely.

    So we all need unconditional love to develop fully as persons, but of course some don't get it and remain stunted for life.

    So I was pointing out that you can get unconditional love from your mother and possibly your father, and also from your therapist.

    Of course on MBTIc we are surrounded by highly conditional love, indeed highly manipulative love - such as you would expect in any cult.

  3. #23
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    So if it doesn't work out with mother, we get a second chance with a therapist.
    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainChick View Post
    I feel sad to see you laughing.

    It seems like a gallows laugh.

  5. #25
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    I feel sad to see you laughing.

    It seems like a gallows laugh.
    And one cannot laugh at the absurdity that is life?!?!?

    Well, Victor, I insincerely apologize if you find my laughter to be offensive.

    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  6. #26
    Senior Member Bella's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    It can come from either parent. But it seems to me, usually from mother.

    And unconditional love is essential as it enables us to get a sense of ourselves.

    Unconditional love reflects us back to ourselves. Unconditional love mirrors us. Our mother is our first mirror. It is in our mother we first see ourselves.

    Of course mother may not be an accurate mirror, and so we don't get an accurate picture of ourselves.

    So if it doesn't work out with mother, we get a second chance with a therapist.

    And as you observe, I tend to go over the top. So I went over the top and suggested your lover may be able to love you unconditionally and you he.

    But while this is possible and even desirable, it is very, very unlikely.

    So we all need unconditional love to develop fully as persons, but of course some don't get it and remain stunted for life.

    So I was pointing out that you can get unconditional love from your mother and possibly your father, and also from your therapist.

    Of course on MBTIc we are surrounded by highly conditional love, indeed highly manipulative love - such as you would expect in any cult.
    That last sentence is really disturbing.
    yesiknowimamiserablegrouchnowgoawayovmeleor

    It's Mizzz ST, thank you...

  7. #27
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainChick View Post
    And one cannot laugh at the absurdity that is life?!?!?

    Well, Victor, I insincerely apologize if you find my laughter to be offensive.

    I don't find you or you laughter offensive.

    In fact I am relaxed enough with you to see beyond your facade.

    I must say it is a very good facade and kept me off balance for quite a while.

    And so I start to see you as you really are.

    I am now able to mirror you. But it must be said, I can only mirror you in a very small way.

    Still, it is nothing to sneeze at.

    And I am happier to be able to mirror you a little.

    Of course it is much better if it is mutual - and you start to mirror me a little too.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bella View Post
    That last sentence is really disturbing.
    I find it disturbing as well.

    In fact my disturbance is called cognitive dissonance.

    On the one hand this is a well run, tolerant group with a good number of members. And new members joining all the time, but with a core of long term members to give it stability.

    But on the other hand MBTI is bogus and pernicious.
    And MBTI is not used like any proper personality test.

    So you can see the two hands are not consonant, and so I experience cognitive dissonance.

    However I know that cognitive dissonance is a sign that learning is taking place. So it is important to tolerate cognitive dissonance and pay attention to it - even though it is mentally painful.

    Also cognitive dissonance exists in many parts of the world. So MBTIc is not so different.

    MBTI is like an indirect way of dealing with the world because it can't be felt directly.

    Of course a good mother can directly feel the feelings of her baby.

    So MBTI is like a struggling mother trying to do her best.

    And actually she doesn't do so bad.

  9. #29
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    I don't find you or you laughter offensive.

    In fact I am relaxed enough with you to see beyond your facade.

    I must say it is a very good facade and kept me off balance for quite a while.

    And so I start to see you as you really are.

    I am now able to mirror you. But it must be said, I can only mirror you in a very small way.

    Still, it is nothing to sneeze at.

    And I am happier to be able to mirror you a little.

    Of course it is much better if it is mutual - and you start to mirror me a little too.
    You see behind my facade, you see right through my barricade, or so you think.

    You say you see the real me and this is true, for the real me is all that you can and will see.

    There are no smoke and mirrors, there is no ruse in which an unsound solace I seek.

    There are only infinite layers, ALL of which reflect the realest of real mes.

    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  10. #30
    Senior Member animenagai's Avatar
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    visiting my parents' home is a bit like visiting myself.

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