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  1. #51
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    I'm quite aware that my manners of thinking don't put me in a special or unique category- which doesn't particularly bother me I guess

    I'd certainly be pleased to run into more people who were equally good at undermining themselves though- I INTENTIONALLY screw myself over when I start to fear that I may actually succeed in life Not so much in that I don't want to feel alone in it, but it would be nice not to have people yelling at me for this tendancy all of the time
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  2. #52
    Senior Member niffer's Avatar
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    Interestingly enough, I rarely feel like I'm alone for very long. Although I frequently become paranoid about being alone.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatGirl View Post
    holy shit am I a feeler?
    if you like my avatar, it's because i took it myself! : D

  3. #53
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    Athenian - yeah basically, of course there is another option - the via media, which is where I tend to fall by default on most issues...

    I'm not sure why people have to polarize things so much, yes I was talking about more interdependence relative to where we are now, not a state of total cloying close-knit can't-get-away community where everyone's constantly living in each other's pockets!! As if any T would push for that, E or not!! LOL

    Perhaps all this stuff you mention in the army analogy is something that simply goes over my head, with my dreadful Fe... I can happily maintain, as you say, that level of detachment so... no I don't really feel obligated to 'endure' it when/if people in a community have 'reactions' and stuff... if I feel that I've done what was reasonable with the data I had to go by, then I really couldn't give a stuff if someone takes it amiss... it doesn't affect my personal sense of maneuverability, I simply ignore it. I didn't mean to suggest that there were none of those drawbacks for anyone, only that I don't personally experience them, possibly as a result of my NT detachment...

    edit - the main thing I ponder in regard to introverts is encapsulated in what heart said - the desire for fewer, more intense relationships - to my mind that brings with it the potential disadvantage that, if the select few people with whom you're on "favour asking" terms don't happen to have the skills and resources that would help you in your situation at any given time, then you're forced to struggle along on your own... an example of the sort of situation I'm envisaging could be say, your car breaks down, you're on minimum wage, you can't afford to take it to the garage - in my case, no problem - I've at least two or three friends/acquaintances with mechanical skills whom I don't hesitate to negotiate for their help at no monetary cost (perhaps give them dinner in return or something?). But for the introvert with a very small sorta 'community pool', do they then have big problems potentially? Even perhaps to the point of losing a job because they couldn't get their car fixed to get to work?

    I'm wondering about this because in my RL I often seem to be like a kind of bridge for some of the very introverted people I know, who I know fully well would have suffered in times like the example I gave above, if I hadn't sorta given them access to my social circle and the skills and resources I potentially have at my fingertips through it - I've been able to ask a friend of mine to do a favour for them for me, leaving them still unobligated to this new person and therefore no fear of THEIR social circle expanding beyond what they feel is manageable, and then they've been able to pay me back for the favour if they want to as I pay my friend back. If you know what I mean?

    A case in point would be a friend, a very introverted INFP, who recently needed some legal advice pretty urgently but had no way of being able to afford to pay for it - in her small, select circle of two or three intense relationships, there were no lawyers. But because I'm one of those people, I was able to procure the help of a friend of mine who is a lawyer, on her behalf, which very possibly saved her from suffering pretty heavy legal shit!
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  4. #54
    Senior Member animenagai's Avatar
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    i'm an extrovert that feels alone. i have close friends and i have many friends, but i've yet to meet someone who i feel completely gets me. the closest people would probably be my best friend from high school and my own father. i wish i found someone who saw my drive for meaning without me having to tell them. maybe i'm just being unrealistic.

  5. #55
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by animenagai View Post
    i'm an extrovert that feels alone. i have close friends and i have many friends, but i've yet to meet someone who i feel completely gets me. the closest people would probably be my best friend from high school and my own father. i wish i found someone who saw my drive for meaning without me having to tell them. maybe i'm just being unrealistic.
    I've felt like that a lot too... HOWEVER I've been gradually coming to question this feeling, in light of evidence that seems to suggest that in fact, there are people who have understood me far more than I've given them credit for... I've simply been too conceited to notice it. Or perhaps, I had my own vision of what it would 'be like' when they understood me, how they'd respond etc, and when they went and had their own minds on the matter and responded in their own way (damn them lol), i've simply seen it as evidence that they 'don't get' me...

    Just something I'm pondering atm, having had an ISFJ recently - my polar opposite type - sum up my approach to life with remarkable precision, leaving me lost for words and very humbled!!
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  6. #56
    Senior Member animenagai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    I've felt like that a lot too... HOWEVER I've been gradually coming to question this feeling, in light of evidence that seems to suggest that in fact, there are people who have understood me far more than I've given them credit for... I've simply been too conceited to notice it. Or perhaps, I had my own vision of what it would 'be like' when they understood me, how they'd respond etc, and when they went and had their own minds on the matter and responded in their own way (damn them lol), i've simply seen it as evidence that they 'don't get' me...

    Just something I'm pondering atm, having had an ISFJ recently - my polar opposite type - sum up my approach to life with remarkable precision, leaving me lost for words and very humbled!!
    maybe, but then again i can't think of any more than 3 people who even have a shot at this. one of my best friends didn't even realize my need for creativity until i told him so, and this was after being best friends for like 5 years. if anyone really understands me fully, i would be ever so grateful for them to just tell me.

  7. #57
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    Maybe they have; you just didn't speak their language... I think that's what MBTI is sposed to be all about, ain't it?

    (I'm not there yet either...)
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  8. #58
    ish red no longer *sad* nightning's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    No, I was just saying we all have social needs, whether psychological or practical, we need help from other people from time to time, and though introverts apparently need less of it, they still need some, and my concern is that due to their having less need of it usually, they might find difficulty in actually getting it when they do need it. It's something I wonder about, as i said, not a fixed opinion that I have. And I wonder how an E such as myself, with a relatively anomalous insight into the drawbacks of a more isolated life, might be able to act as a sort of 'bridge' to help the I's I know in this process in a totally non-patronizing way.
    Exactly! Most of us need less. For some reason or other that means we're less motivated to go out there. Less chances to practice, the more rusty our skills get. I seriously think social skills are like any other subjects, much easier to learn when you're younger. Once you've reached a certain age, there's the expectations that you ought to know what to do. In reality, you really don't.

    The difficulties is in reach out when it feels like you're blindfolded. I think it has a lot to do with self expectations. If you go in with the mindset just to experience then it'll work a lot better. Certainly it wouldn't feel as though the Es are being patronizing. All depends on the attitude you go in with really.

    That said, I'm still scared as heck meeting people for the first time. Small talks also seems to be beyond me.

  9. #59
    wallflowe r🥀 DulcetRefrain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    I'll admit, I'm heavily guilty of the burden-mindset. Others are never a burden for me, and I make it a point to let them know that.. but when it comes to myself, I tend to feel different.. my logic is the same though. I believe you should not feel ashamed to ask for help, advice, or otherwise because you should know that your contributions have given you the right to receive help in return.. just as you have helped those unashamed to come to you. It's idealist at best, but that's how I feel...I guess I just need a bit more growing up to realize that I am included in those that contribute.
    This. So much. ^ I have zero problem with people coming to me for comfort or help or advice, but I hate asking for that myself. It makes me feel needy and like I'm only driving the other person away...Obviously that's so stupid, because everyone needs help sometimes and real friends would want to give you comfort. But I still can't shake that feeling of being a burden to others.. It would take someone really persistent to get me out of that habit.

    That probably adds to why I feel alone, aside from being isolated my whole life. Moving a lot meant not holding onto people. As quickly as they came to me, they became memories. So I learned to be ok with just me, I kept a positive outlook, but it doesn't rid me of my loneliness. Even with friends, there's always this strange barrier on my end. I never feel fully connected to them. And if I feel we might be connected, I realize I might hold them in a much higher regard than they hold me, I'm just another person they talk to. Like the more I give the less I get back.

    Most of that is my own insecurity I suppose, so I don't really hold it against anyone. If you don't like the way something is going and you have the power to change that, I think you should try. So I'm trying to work on being more open, with friends at least, and see where it goes.


    Because truly...no one is alone <3

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  10. #60
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DulcetRefrain View Post
    This. So much. ^ I have zero problem with people coming to me for comfort or help or advice, but I hate asking for that myself. It makes me feel needy and like I'm only driving the other person away...Obviously that's so stupid, because everyone needs help sometimes and real friends would want to give you comfort. But I still can't shake that feeling of being a burden to others.. It would take someone really persistent to get me out of that habit.

    That probably adds to why I feel alone, aside from being isolated my whole life. Moving a lot meant not holding onto people. As quickly as they came to me, they became memories. So I learned to be ok with just me, I kept a positive outlook, but it doesn't rid me of my loneliness. Even with friends, there's always this strange barrier on my end. I never feel fully connected to them. And if I feel we might be connected, I realize I might hold them in a much higher regard than they hold me, I'm just another person they talk to. Like the more I give the less I get back.

    Most of that is my own insecurity I suppose, so I don't really hold it against anyone. If you don't like the way something is going and you have the power to change that, I think you should try. So I'm trying to work on being more open, with friends at least, and see where it goes.


    Because truly...no one is alone <3

    Wow, haha, appreciate the ressurection of that post.

    That post was 8 years ago. I did actively work on this point in my life, and it is still a point that needs work... but I can say that 8 years later, my ego and pride have altered and changed, and I do find it okay to admit when I am not capable of something, or that I need help. Friends, family, general growing up, and life experience and challenges helped me with this a lot. This little demon of a nodule that tries to say "No, don't do that!" exists.. but letting him control me and what's logical, I can proudly say, is something that does not happen frequently anymore.
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