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  1. #41
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    Knowing I'm not alone in the broadest sense of the term does not bother me.

    Only when I meet these people I know of and they start talking at me about it because they think they're entitled to and that I certainly want to hear about it because they have the same problem as I do does it become an issue.

    For some reason, this happens an awful lot.
    Well, I've no idea what you're talking about. I've never had that problem nor encountered anyone else with that problem. I don't relate to you at all and in fact believe you're stark raving bonkers for even saying such a thing. And I don't even want to talk about it, so shut up.

    Better?
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

    "When it all comes down to dust
    I will kill you if I must
    I will help you if I can" - Leonard Cohen

  2. #42
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    Well, I've no idea what you're talking about. I've never had that problem nor encountered anyone else with that problem. I don't relate to you at all and in fact believe you're stark raving bonkers for even saying such a thing. And I don't even want to talk about it, so shut up.

    Better?
    Much better.

    Thank you.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  3. #43
    Senior Member kuranes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anja View Post
    I'l take a facetious stab at this. Was it

    Th-th-th-that's all, folks?"
    You're very close !!
    "The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them that they are being attacked and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country."
    Reichsfuhrer Herman Goering at the Nuremburg trials.

  4. #44
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Default Pyramus and Thisby

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainChick View Post
    I know that there are other people out there who are like me, but how does that help me any when I cannot actually interact with them?
    From my point of view, it's like there is a sophisticated but impenetrable wall around you.

    Your wall is covered in a vine with pretty flowers and I was immediately attracted to you, like many here. But beyond the flowers, there is just the stone cold wall.

    The interesting thing about you is the contrast between the flowers and the wall.

    The flowers work very well and attract all the honey bees but they all go home to their hives when they bump their antennae against the wall.

    You remind me of Wall in Act V of Midsummer Night's Dream -

    Snout plays the Wall that has a crannied hole or chink through which the lovers, Pyramus and Thisby, do whisper often very secretly.

    So quite naturally I look for a chink in your wall that I might whisper often and secretly.

    But I don't know - I don't know - whether my Thisby is on the other side of the wall.

  5. #45
    Senior Member VanillaCat's Avatar
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    I don't really feel like I'm alone. I just feel isolated in terms of connection...

    It's weird to explain, but I have the best of friends and I get along with all of them. In fact, I had a connection with a lot of them...

    But recently I just feel so disconnected. I feel like I could hurt them in the worst of ways and not care. Really selfish and kind of like feeling alone, because I wish I had that connection where I really and truly cared about people like I used to, and feel like a part of them. Maybe I built a wall somewhere along the line?

    I have no idea how it started and I have no idea what the problem is. I guess I'm kind of stuck. I have fun with them and they're absolutely perfect, so maybe I turned into a psychopath, Lol!
    It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on his not understanding it.

  6. #46
    Diabolical Kasper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I think, yes, one of the larger problems is too much introspection. Introverts especially are susceptible to it. Introverts in those situations just tend to withdraw further and feel more isolated.
    That ^

    I found that getting out and being around people and exposing myself -- rather than sitting around and endlessly analyzing -- did help some with not feeling so lonely and isolated.
    With knowledge that ^ is how it should be done. Doesn't mean I do, I just know I should

  7. #47
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trinity View Post
    That ^

    With knowledge that ^ is how it should be done. Doesn't mean I do, I just know I should
    Yes... see this is all I was talking about. Apparently some might have gotten the mistaken idea that I'm insisting that all introverts are simply repressed extraverts that need lots of social interaction to not go crazy or something.

    No, I was just saying we all have social needs, whether psychological or practical, we need help from other people from time to time, and though introverts apparently need less of it, they still need some, and my concern is that due to their having less need of it usually, they might find difficulty in actually getting it when they do need it. It's something I wonder about, as i said, not a fixed opinion that I have. And I wonder how an E such as myself, with a relatively anomalous insight into the drawbacks of a more isolated life, might be able to act as a sort of 'bridge' to help the I's I know in this process in a totally non-patronizing way.

    Just to be extra clear about that.
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

    "When it all comes down to dust
    I will kill you if I must
    I will help you if I can" - Leonard Cohen

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    You remind me of Wall in the Act V of Midsummer Night's Dream
    ROFL I'm gonna die I think.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post

    No, I was just saying we all have social needs, whether psychological or practical, we need help from other people from time to time, and though introverts apparently need less of it, they still need some, and my concern is that due to their having less need of it usually, they might find difficulty in actually getting it when they do need it. It's something I wonder about, as i said, not a fixed opinion that I have. And I wonder how an E such as myself, with a relatively anomalous insight into the drawbacks of a more isolated life, might be able to act as a sort of 'bridge' to help the I's I know in this process in a totally non-patronizing way.

    Just to be extra clear about that.

    I usually want fewer but more intense relationships.

    Sometimes certain things in life put us alone in the experience because other people cannot relate and cannot understand, even when they try. It's just part of being human. Gives life the edge, lol.

  10. #50
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    Ha... no, trust me, I'm more than familiar with the down sides of being in an interdependent community!!
    Oh? Well, that wasn't obvious, so I was just making sure. It looks like you get it, then.


    Ah, see now it seems to me that you're confusing 'interdependence' with 'dependency'. Not the same thing at all. The idea that "we look after each other" meaning I EARN my entitlement to be helped BY helping others in my turn, is quite different from the passive idea of entitlement to be looked after for nothing. You're talking about the 'all rights, no responsibilities' mentality, which I don't condone.
    Aha! I see now. So, does that mean that you feel within your rights to withdraw your cooperation from a particular person if you help them, but they end up being more of an obstacle than a help? In other words, you do help people, and let them help you, but that doesn't mean you let them control you with those obligations/relationships, right? You kind of understand how to make and break the connections as necessary, try to help/accommodate within reason, but don't let things get so out of hand that you're trapped in an undesirable situation you could otherwise get yourself out of as a result?
    Can I post that on the D&D forum for a TN definition?

    I can sorta relate to it, except that I have to add in there that 'defining yourself independently' carries with it the risk of delusion... if that definition isn't to at least some extent influenced by the responses in external reality of others to that 'self' that you are. People are prone to hearing what they want to hear and 'evaluating their advice before deciding if it relates to you or not', only to usually come to the conclusion that it doesn't, if it's something they don't like (but could well be true).
    Well, the way I see it, you can either let the beliefs of the people around you define you, or try to define yourself independently. Which is better? Or is there another option?
    Those disadvantages aren't something I experience... the only disadvantage I can think of really is just that it means putting up with people's bad sides as well as their good, and people can be a REAL pain in the ass sometimes!
    You don't see how being interdependent reduces maneuverability? Well, think about the difference between having to march a whole unit into a situation, keeping up the large supply line, drawing enemy attention, etc... versus being a single, quick operative that slides/sneaks in and out of a situation, doing what needs to be done, able to make decisions and change direction more quickly than they would be when working with a large group, doing everything out in the open, dealing with all the protocols, other peoples concerns, etc. The penalty would be especially compounded if decisions have to be made by consensus. I mean, again, think of congress... how long does it take congress to decide and act on something, versus an individual? Of course, on the other hand, that individual operative doesn't have access to as many resources, is a lot more vulnerable if discovered, and can't do things on the same scale. So there are those trade-offs.

    Well, I put up with both sides of people too, even just posting/interacting on forums regularly. I have to agree with that part.
    Yeah, all makes perfect sense. But what I was getting at was that we're social animals by nature, and 99% of humans aren't capable of obtaining everything they need to remain physically and mentally healthy whilst living completely alone, but I see a worrying tendency, especially in urban culture, to believe that this is possible and even desirable, as more and more people are living alone and less and less people are talking to their neighbours. There is a noticeable peak of people seeking help with isolation related depression in Western cities, where individualist, independent culture prevails; the problem is far less pronounced in rural communities... and in my capacity as a chaplain I do get far more instances of people who have spiralled themselves out of control with self-doubt, existential angst and all sorts of other things that have simply lost their perspective to this person because they've not been around other people enough to keep the perspective healthy - get it ALL the time in towns, but very rarely in the countryside.
    That does happen... so let me see if I understand correctly. You're pushing for more interdependence, relative to where we are now, not in an absolute sense, right? In other words, more interdependence rather than total interdependence? Because the way I see it, too much interdependence could be just as bad as too little. Remember The Borg? Of course, you are correct that as things are, we often experience the opposite extreme... too much individualism.

    Well, okay then... what about selective interdependence? In other words, where you have a small group of chosen people that you trust and somewhat enjoy talking to, rather than just trusting and valuing the whole of society indiscriminately? And what if you work together on some things when it seems like it would be beneficial, and also allow each other to work apart with smaller things or things that don't really concern them, rather than just insisting on dealing with each other on everything? Do you think that would that work well enough?

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