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  1. #71
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rachelinpa View Post
    Hmm, yes, this is true. I have done this. Ex. I dance well. I always have to give the appearance that I am like one of the group (being myself, but being quiet about it) during my theater rehearsals so I can establish likeability amongst the people first before they pre-judge me based on my ability.

    At the same time, it can be exhausting. Sometimes I wonder how long I should wait before I bust out with the truth.
    Yeah, I just want to make a point. Using this as an example that you have to hide your abilities I don't think counts as being considered "average". If you have a talent there's no sense in being ashamed of the talent.

    How you express that talent does make a lot of difference. Using the same example, my friend is an excellent swing dancer and gives lessons. I've gone swing dancing with her lots of times and she never has a shortage of people who want to dance with her. Everybody readily acknowledges how great she is but she doesn't use her talent as something she lords over people. She communicates herself as someone who is willing to show someone how and is quite humble about her ability. If you're gifted and still humble in your giftedness, you won't need to "dumb yourself down" to get along.

    Of course you just have haters in the world that will be envious no matter what, but I don't think this is comparable.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  2. #72
    On a mission Usehername's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainChick View Post

    My driving goal is to be as authentic as I can be.
    A thought:

    ENFPs make people feel safe, welcomed and comfortable (in a very quirky way that makes them unique from Fe/xNFx types). Perhaps this is why you've been challenged on the boards a time or two regarding your ENFPness (which btw I'm sure you're an ENFP, just follow the reasoning)--CC, we all believe you are a well-meaning person, but you don't make people feel safe, welcomed and comfortable. You make people feel a little threatened that you might lash out at them, you make people feel unwelcome to discuss things with you since you take out your frustrations on us, and that all adds up to making any interaction we attempt with you an uncomfortable one. And any interaction that happens with someone who is uncomfortable is not going to include feeling a real sense of human connection.

    You have a lot to offer people, and I think you'll be deeply relieved to the extent that those of us with "normal" intelligence/skills can meet you where you are if you simply have some faith and patience with us. When ENFPs are consistently not able to make people feel safe, welcomed and comfortable, that's a problem that needs addressing.

    Relationships don't happen in a vacuum. They don't happen to us, we all must interact. I think you can work on your interaction. I'm sure you have the skills, but you have never been able to use your talents well on the forums here, and that must feel not so good. When we can't show people our light, why would they follow us where we want to take them?
    *You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.
    *Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason once accepted, despite your changing moods.
    C.S. Lewis

  3. #73
    Senior Member Rachelinpa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    Yeah, I just want to make a point. Using this as an example that you have to hide your abilities I don't think counts as being considered "average". If you have a talent there's no sense in being ashamed of the talent.

    How you express that talent does make a lot of difference. Using the same example, my friend is an excellent swing dancer and gives lessons. I've gone swing dancing with her lots of times and she never has a shortage of people who want to dance with her. Everybody readily acknowledges how great she is but she doesn't use her talent as something she lords over people. She communicates herself as someone who is willing to show someone how and is quite humble about her ability. If you're gifted and still humble in your giftedness, you won't need to "dumb yourself down" to get along.

    Of course you just have haters in the world that will be envious no matter what, but I don't think this is comparable.
    No, I understand. I only hide them in the beginning and it works to my advantage. I tend to express my talents graciously, actually. At least, that is my aim.

    At the same time, I always feel like there is a strain. I am not able to bond with others when they laugh about how they cannot master the steps or joke about how I messed that part up. They like me and I like them. We all get along famously, but the initial connection is slower for me and I never feel like I fit in.

  4. #74
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Little Linguist View Post
    Then why does alienation from others bother you?
    *They* don't alienate me, rather *I* feel alienated when with them

    I get them yet they don't get me, and I want to both get and be gotten.

    The *be gotten* part, or the lack of being gotten is what is causing me pain.

    Doesn't everybody want to be understood?

    And on a random, yet relevant note, this thread beautifully exemplifies my problem
    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  5. #75
    Striving for balance Little Linguist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    Yeah, I just want to make a point. Using this as an example that you have to hide your abilities I don't think counts as being considered "average". If you have a talent there's no sense in being ashamed of the talent.

    How you express that talent does make a lot of difference. Using the same example, my friend is an excellent swing dancer and gives lessons. I've gone swing dancing with her lots of times and she never has a shortage of people who want to dance with her. Everybody readily acknowledges how great she is but she doesn't use her talent as something she lords over people. She communicates herself as someone who is willing to show someone how and is quite humble about her ability. If you're gifted and still humble in your giftedness, you won't need to "dumb yourself down" to get along.

    Of course you just have haters in the world that will be envious no matter what, but I don't think this is comparable.
    This is an excellent point. If you are genuine and natural, people will love you no matter what. And if you aren't, people won't love you, no matter how good you are. I'm not saying you're not: I don't know you and cannot presume anything. Sure, there are always people who are jealous.

    Let me say how I would react to you. If you have great abilities, I would admire you and strive to be like you. Or I would respect you and ask your advice or try to learn from you. But if you were overbearing and basically put me down - either directly or indirectly - I wouldn't care how knowledgeable you were or how intelligent, I would rather deal with someone else.

    Others might be different. Perhaps you might want to take a look at the kind of people you are attracting? Where are you hanging out? Can you find people with the qualities you seek where you are looking?

    For example, I talked to a guy who bemoaned his position to me and said how all girls basically sucked. So I asked him how he got in contact with girls. Yeah, bars and clubs. I looked at him incredulously and said, "The kind of girls you described to me don't generally hang out there. They do. But not that often." It was like a lightbulb dawned and he said, "Really???"

    *sigh* I'm not saying it's the same for you. And I don't want to say that people who go there are dumb. That's not true. But if you want people with these qualities, you need to check if you are going to the right places.

    Oh, and don't look. You won't find if you look. It just happens.

    If you are open, go to the right places, and don't hide your traits but aren't overbearing either, and are not LOOKING, then good things will happen.
    If you are interested in language, words, linguistics, or foreign languages, check out my blog and read, post, and/or share.

  6. #76
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername View Post
    A thought:

    ENFPs make people feel safe, welcomed and comfortable (in a very quirky way that makes them unique from Fe/xNFx types). Perhaps this is why you've been challenged on the boards a time or two regarding your ENFPness (which btw I'm sure you're an ENFP, just follow the reasoning)--CC, we all believe you are a well-meaning person, but you don't make people feel safe, welcomed and comfortable. You make people feel a little threatened that you might lash out at them, you make people feel unwelcome to discuss things with you since you take out your frustrations on us, and that all adds up to making any interaction we attempt with you an uncomfortable one. And any interaction that happens with someone who is uncomfortable is not going to include feeling a real sense of human connection.

    You have a lot to offer people, and I think you'll be deeply relieved to the extent that those of us with "normal" intelligence/skills can meet you where you are if you simply have some faith and patience with us. When ENFPs are consistently not able to make people feel safe, welcomed and comfortable, that's a problem that needs addressing.

    Relationships don't happen in a vacuum. They don't happen to us, we all must interact. I think you can work on your interaction. I'm sure you have the skills, but you have never been able to use your talents well on the forums here, and that must feel not so good. When we can't show people our light, why would they follow us where we want to take them?
    Darling, you and I, rarely, if ever, interact.

    So I am a bit puzzled by your two cents.



    There are some people here I jive with, and some that I don't.

    And lol, man LOL!!!

    The irony and sadness of this thread is epic!
    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  7. #77
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    I almost never feel like I'm totally 'gotten' by anyone. But then I tend to think that it's because of some fault of my own, rather than anyone else (because it probably is). Even if I did think that it was the other person's problem to understand me better, there is no way that I could accomplish that short of getting to know them better. After all, you can't very well lock foreheads and transfer information upon touch, or make someone understand you through imperious means.
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  8. #78
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    OMG!!!!

    Dude, I am well-received by my peers, as idiosyncratic as they may view me to be.

    But being well-received is not the same as being *understood*
    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  9. #79
    Striving for balance Little Linguist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername View Post
    A thought:

    ENFPs make people feel safe, welcomed and comfortable (in a very quirky way that makes them unique from Fe/xNFx types). Perhaps this is why you've been challenged on the boards a time or two regarding your ENFPness (which btw I'm sure you're an ENFP, just follow the reasoning)--CC, we all believe you are a well-meaning person, but you don't make people feel safe, welcomed and comfortable. You make people feel a little threatened that you might lash out at them, you make people feel unwelcome to discuss things with you since you take out your frustrations on us, and that all adds up to making any interaction we attempt with you an uncomfortable one. And any interaction that happens with someone who is uncomfortable is not going to include feeling a real sense of human connection.

    You have a lot to offer people, and I think you'll be deeply relieved to the extent that those of us with "normal" intelligence/skills can meet you where you are if you simply have some faith and patience with us. When ENFPs are consistently not able to make people feel safe, welcomed and comfortable, that's a problem that needs addressing.

    Relationships don't happen in a vacuum. They don't happen to us, we all must interact. I think you can work on your interaction. I'm sure you have the skills, but you have never been able to use your talents well on the forums here, and that must feel not so good. When we can't show people our light, why would they follow us where we want to take them?
    This is an excellent point.

    Chick, let me be honest with you. My honesty might turn you off and make you angry, but I have to share, because I think you might be able to extract value from it.

    When I was younger (in my teens and early 20s - I'm 28 now), I used to be very arrogant, haughty, and exuberant. It was a protective shield because I really felt crappy about myself. In reality, in my core, I wasn't like that. But I acted that way, because, well, I needed to grow up and realize I have value the way I am.

    During this time I also felt isolated. Unloved. NOT UNDERSTOOD. No one loves me or respects me as I am. And such. And I blamed everyone for it. People who were not intelligent. People who were freaks. People who were just base or banal. People who were......Yeah.

    There are people like that. But not everyone. I found the answer to my problem within myself.

    Believe in yourself. Feel comfy with yourself. Love yourself. If you do, you will exude positive feelings that make others comfy. I truly believe you have this capability. But you don't show it. Because you are afraid maybe. Afraid others won't love you. Afraid you're not good enough. Afraid you are just not worthy of love. And you overcompensate for it by appearing exceedingly, well, yeah, like I did.

    Sometimes I still have problems with this. It doesn't go away overnight. It is a defense mechanism. With time, you will lose it. Especially if you have an objective person (ie. your counselor) to help you, you will learn to shed this untrue you to reveal the beautiful, lovely you.

    And you know what? As soon as I let that crappy burden, that shell, GO!!!! - then I met lovely people - good friends, my husband, lovely people that are like a second family. They understand me and I learn from them. YOU can TOO!!! But you need to love YOU!!!!!!

    I know how you feel. Surrounded by people but lonely. Listened to but misunderstood. Efficient but not pushed to your potential. YOU HAVE THE REIGNS. Take the bull by the horns and let's do this!!!! That's how you have to do it.
    If you are interested in language, words, linguistics, or foreign languages, check out my blog and read, post, and/or share.

  10. #80
    On a mission Usehername's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainChick View Post
    Darling, you and I, rarely, if ever, interact.

    So I am a bit puzzled by your two cents.

    We don't interact because after two months of me getting frustrated watching you interact with others, I've had you on "ignore" since then.
    *You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.
    *Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason once accepted, despite your changing moods.
    C.S. Lewis

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