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  1. #181
    IRL is not real Cimarron's Avatar
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    I think I see what you are saying with the Polarized Light video. (Although I don't know why you are saying it.)

    It is more difficult for Sensors to believe what they can't observe with the senses. Is that what you're saying? Or is there more?

    For example, Einstein's ideas about relativity. To those who haven't learned it yet, I tell them that the mathematics of it is very simple. The concepts can even seem less strange if you compare them to something more familiar. But that only means that they make logical sense. The most difficult part is "letting yourself believe" that it is true. This was the case for me, anyway. And that's because, as you are saying, it defies our sensory experience. We've never seen it or felt it happening.

    Here is an example from a school essay I wrote. Does it fit what you're talking about?
    I remember an instance years ago in a chemistry lab class when I did not "trust" what I had learned in lectures. We were separating mixtures inside test tubes, and part of this involved putting the test tubes into a small "centrifuge," basically a spinning metal bowl. Because of their positions, the tubes looked as if they would fly right out of the bowl, and I put distance between my face and the spinning centrifuge for that reason. My teacher saw my reaction and thought it foolish. After all, we both knew that the laws of physics kept those tubes in place, so why did I doubt that knowledge when it was time to apply it?
    Last edited by Cimarron; 12-26-2008 at 12:43 PM. Reason: italics for emphasis
    You can't spell "justice" without ISTJ.

  2. #182
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cimarron View Post
    I think I see what you are saying with the Polarized Light video. (Although I don't know why you are saying it.)

    It is more difficult for Sensors to believe what they can't observe with the senses. Is that what you're saying? Or is there more?

    For example, Einstein's ideas about relativity. To those who haven't learned it yet, I tell them that the mathematics of it is very simple. The concepts can even seem less strange if you compare them to something more familiar. But that only means that they make logical sense. The most difficult part is "letting yourself believe" that it is true. This was the case for me, anyway. And that's because, as you are saying, it defies our sensory experience. We've never seen it or felt it happening.
    What I am saying that there is plenty of things that are real for sure and they are outside of our sensory experiance.

    I already know that sensor could have problems with this kind of approach so I posted this to see the comments of others.

    To tell you the truth I have much easier time to "believe".


    But there is one more thing I thinK it is important here.
    It is about comparing abstract things with something more earthly.
    This thing is that by doing this in some cases doesn't explain the entire idea it only gives oversimplified explantion and it is always questionable did make a good analogy. If it is not good one it will be quite hard to explain something that comes after it.


    Yes, your example fits the topic I am talking about.

  3. #183
    IRL is not real Cimarron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    What I am saying that there is plenty of things that are real for sure and they are outside of our sensory experiance.
    For sure?

    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one
    This thing is that by doing this in some cases doesn't explain the entire idea it only gives oversimplified explantion and it is always questionable did make a good analogy. If it is not good one it will be quite hard to explain something that comes after it.
    True, and that is an obstacle.
    You can't spell "justice" without ISTJ.

  4. #184
    Senior Member Anja's Avatar
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    Since I've just come from the SEXY thread, I'll pose this rhetorical question:

    Is saying "Would you please put your thingy in my whatchamacallit?" too abstract?

    *Snortin' in my tea*
    "No ray of sunshine is ever lost, but the green which it awakes into existence needs time to sprout, and it is not always granted to the sower to see the harvest. All work that is worth anything is done in faith." - Albert Schweitzer

  5. #185
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cimarron View Post
    For sure?.
    Do you want me to talk more about this?
    Or you are just joking?

  6. #186
    Senior Member Anja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    Do you want me to talk more about this?
    Or you are just joking?
    Nah, AS. Just dropping in a little leftover Christmas distraction.

    As you were. . .

    Afterthought. Sometimes you can be very abstract and still get the message across. Most of us develop an ability to read the abstract to cope. Harder for some than others.
    "No ray of sunshine is ever lost, but the green which it awakes into existence needs time to sprout, and it is not always granted to the sower to see the harvest. All work that is worth anything is done in faith." - Albert Schweitzer

  7. #187
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anja View Post
    Since I've just come from the SEXY thread, I'll pose this rhetorical question:

    Is saying "Would you please put your thingy in my whatchamacallit?" too abstract?

    *Snortin' in my tea*
    I have one question.

    Do you think I am too serious?

  8. #188
    IRL is not real Cimarron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    Do you want me to talk more about this?
    Sure, I would like to hear more on what you (and others, if they want--you're out there, people) think about this. That is, if you have time and think it is relevant to the thread. And it certainly can be relevant.
    You can't spell "justice" without ISTJ.

  9. #189
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    I will give you some examples from real life so that you will have easier time.


    If you use only your senses you can't explain how the screen you are looking at right now works.

    Also there would be no point to talk on your cell phone since person can't hear you for sure.

    It is impossible that TV would work either since the signal is invisible.

    When you take a glass of sea water you will not see a salt in it. But it will taste like there is salt. If you place that glass on the sun and wait, you will get a glass with salt. So would it be resonable to presume that salt is there all along.

    When you take a look at sea from a ship you will notice that oblects below the surface look strange. Does that means that they look like that for real?

    How would you explain rainbow?



    Here are some little bit more abstract examples.

    You can't explain earthquakes since you can't explain the real cause.
    Since energy realise is invisible.
    Some kinds of things work for tsunamies.


    Nuclear blasts also don't make too much sense. Since it looks improbable that such a power could be realised from something so small what is not so flammable.
    And if this is not true then the last 60 years of world history are just a conspiracy. What is even more unlikely since back then there was no modern movie technology to create "the threat". Unless that one is a lie to.

    Nuclear plants are the same story.



    Today we know all of this things, also we have measured them and used them to our advantage based upon that measurements. So logic says that they are real by all criterion except that they are not accessible to our senses.


    If you want abstractions I could say that even the ways and logic by which you measure things are not correct and we can't even begin to understand actual picture of reality since our logic is flawed in its root just like our senses.

  10. #190
    IRL is not real Cimarron's Avatar
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    Those are some good examples. For instance, with telephones or television, you could say that as soon as you try it out for yourself, you might start to "believe" it, since you have experienced it physically.

    But:
    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    If you want abstractions I could say that even the ways and logic by which you measure things are not correct and we can't even begin to understand actual picture of reality since our logic is flawed in its root just like our senses.
    It seems that this is the underlying assumption in everything you've said above. And well...you've already created another thread to talk about that, right?
    You can't spell "justice" without ISTJ.

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