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  1. #11
    desert pelican Owl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LostInNerSpace View Post
    I think you got gang raped by reality. Were you the one with the nazi cat avatars?
    Veneti.

    And his cats weren't Nazi's dammit! There was this long thread where people were accusing him of being some sort of Nazi sympathizer, but he didn't like the Nazi's--he liked German history and iconography, some of which the Nazi's appropriated.

    /rant

  2. #12
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Of course you can be conservative in the sense of conserving what is good in your society.
    Reminds me of a song I posted in the "SJ Anthems" thread.

    "Village Green Preservation Society" - The Kinks

    We are the village green preservation society
    God save donald duck, vaudeville and variety
    We are the desperate dan appreciation society
    God save strawberry jam and all the different varieties

    Preserving the old ways from being abused
    Protecting the new ways for me and for you
    What more can we do

    We are the draught beer preservation society
    God save mrs. mopp and good old mother riley
    We are the custard pie appreciation consortium
    God save the george cross and all those who were awarded them

    We are the sherlock holmes english speaking vernacular
    Help save fu manchu, moriarty and dracula
    We are the office block persecution affinity
    God save little shops, china cups and virginity
    We are the skyscraper condemnation affiliate
    God save tudor houses, antique tables and billiards

    Preserving the old ways from being abused
    Protecting the new ways for me and for you
    What more can we do
    God save the village green.


    YouTube - The Kinks - The Village Green Preservation Society
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  3. #13
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffster View Post
    Do you mean conservative politically? Socially? Religiously? Conservative in economic habits? I mean, there's all kinds of possible areas one can be conservative and not necessarily the same in other areas.
    Fair enough.

    If someone here thinks that he/she is conservative in some areas He/she can talk about the specific area in which he/she is conservative.

    My orignal idea was/is to talk about all kinds of conservatism and the will to defend trditional values.

    I am not attacking anyone I am just trying to understand.

  4. #14
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by sassafrassquatch View Post
    Might want to define conservative values first.
    Russell Kirk outlined ten basic Conservative principles:

    • First, the conservative believes that there exists an enduring moral order.
    • Second, the conservative adheres to custom, convention, and continuity.
    • Third, conservatives believe in what may be called the principle of prescription.
    • Fourth, conservatives are guided by their principle of prudence.
    • Fifth, conservatives pay attention to the principle of variety.
    • Sixth, conservatives are chastened by their principle of imperfectability.
    • Seventh, conservatives are persuaded that freedom and property are closely linked.
    • Eighth, conservatives uphold voluntary community, quite as they oppose involuntary collectivism.
    • Ninth, the conservative perceives the need for prudent restraints upon power and upon human passions.
    • Tenth, the thinking conservative understands that permanence and change must be recognized and reconciled in a vigorous society.


    You read explainations of each principle here:
    Ten Conservative Principles

  5. #15
    Resident Snot-Nose GZA's Avatar
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    The thing I don't like is when, for example, Stephan Harper used to say in his speaches "we need to maintain traditional values".

    Traditional values are, to me, by definition bad. A thing of the past. If they were still relevant or useful they would be contemporary values. What are traditional vlues? Racism? Sexism? Residential Schools? Ect.

    What do those have to dow ith an election?

    /rant

    Awesome stuff, Peguy!

  6. #16
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    I'm split depending on issues, because I make my own mind up about everything. So I guess that's the answer to why I am conservative about anything specific.

  7. #17
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by GZA View Post
    Traditional values are, to me, by definition bad. A thing of the past. If they were still relevant or useful they would be contemporary values.
    Tradition is based upon eternal values, which essentially apply to any time. Certainly each time period puts it own unique twists to it, but there is a discernable amount of continuity involved. And continuity provides a stable foundation for proper change to occur. Without that foundation, change can have utter destructive consequences.

    What are traditional vlues? Racism? Sexism? Residential Schools? Ect.
    Well in actuality there is the legitimate argument of what exactly is wrong with any of those? The problem today is that we apply such negative labels with a broad brush, rather than possibly see them as gross perversions of legitimate values.

    Racism can be seen as a perversion of the legitmate value of kinship, which is the basis of the family and the concept of a community. Sexism as a perversion of the recognition of gender differences, thus different roles in society. And so on.

    What do those have to dow ith an election?
    Well as the saying goes; one's views on the big questions effects one's views on the small questions. So a candidate's position on specific issues is a reflection of his overall philosophy.

    Awesome stuff, Peguy!
    No problem.

  8. #18
    veteran attention whore Jeffster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    Fair enough.

    If someone here thinks that he/she is conservative in some areas He/she can talk about the specific area in which he/she is conservative.
    Okay, then. Well, kinda like Jack Flack, when it comes to politics, I examine issues independently. Sometimes my view of it lines up with what's called "conservative", sometimes it doesn't. I would say I tend to agree with the conservative side of issues more often than the liberal one, but I don't do so because it's the conservative side, it just happens that it is. Many times my view or solution on a particular issue doesn't neatly line up with either side, I think a ton of issues have much more than two sides to them. But in its very basic form, the "conservative" issues I tend to agree with are against abortion, against changing the laws of marriage, in favor of strict punishments for crimes, less regulation of businesses, less centralized power in the federal government, more freedom for local communities.

    Socially, I could be described as very conservative. I don't drink alcohol or use any kind of non-medical drugs, I don't go to dance clubs or bars or very many concerts. In general, I don't tend to be outgoing or desiring to be at loud parties or other places with large groups of people, besides sporting events, but if I go there I'm doing it for the love of the game and the experience myself, not to be social.

    Religiously, I am both very conservative and very liberal at the same time. My basic beliefs are conservative, in the sense of believing in the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and trying to do my best to adhere to the teachings of Jesus. But I don't like most traditional religious services or ceremonies, rituals gone through for the sake of tradition hold no value for me. I prefer more "contemporary" services that are much more relaxed with contemporary music and no focus on what people are wearing or elaborate robes or fancy buildings.

    Meanwhile, in economic habits, I am about as far away from conservative as you can get. I am very good at spending money fast and running out of money! I spend plenty on myself, sure, but I also spend it on other people, both in a charitable way (sponsoring a child overseas, giving 20 bucks to the guy at the gas station who says he has no money to get home) and just to have a good time with people, going to dinner or movies or bowling or other activities, sports my son plays, toys and other things for him too. My philosophy is that life is to be enjoyed, so saving up money is hard for me to do because it's hard to think about long-term benefits when I don't even know that the world won't end tomorrow.

    So, as you can see, I can be described as very liberal or very conservative or somewhere in between, depending on the area we're discussing.
    Jeffster Illustrates the Artisan Temperament <---- click here

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  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Russell Kirk outlined ten basic Conservative principles:

    • First, the conservative believes that there exists an enduring moral order.
    • Second, the conservative adheres to custom, convention, and continuity.
    • Third, conservatives believe in what may be called the principle of prescription.
    • Fourth, conservatives are guided by their principle of prudence.
    • Fifth, conservatives pay attention to the principle of variety.
    • Sixth, conservatives are chastened by their principle of imperfectability.
    • Seventh, conservatives are persuaded that freedom and property are closely linked.
    • Eighth, conservatives uphold voluntary community, quite as they oppose involuntary collectivism.
    • Ninth, the conservative perceives the need for prudent restraints upon power and upon human passions.
    • Tenth, the thinking conservative understands that permanence and change must be recognized and reconciled in a vigorous society.


    You read explainations of each principle here:
    Ten Conservative Principles
    I am actually surprisingly in-tune with what I call a "common sense" interpretation to the principles, especially since the other 9 principles are tempered in the 10th. I especially like principle 8. However, I disagree with principle 9 even in the common-sense interpretation of the words.

    Also, it is my opinion that this as actually written euphemistically to say that the way things were in the 1950s was better than they were in the 1990s, because they may have been better for wealthy WASPs. If someone could dissuade me of the notion that this is the real meaning of "small-town values" and other such things, I may even call myself "conservative" (though there is principle 9 as a sticking point).

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
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    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

  10. #20
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    Also, it is my opinion that this as actually written euphemistically to say that the way things were in the 1950s was better than they were in the 1990s, because they may have been better for wealthy WASPs.
    Well thats the stereotypical "conservative" attitude of being nostalgic for the 1950's. If anything, the real conservative attitude is more or less for rediscovering the virtues and values of the Old Republic, prior to the Civil War.

    Does that mean literally recreating that society? No. Much like the Renaisance didnt literally recreate ancient Greece and Rome, or the Protestant Reformation literally recreate the early Church. Rather rediscovering these virtues so they can provide a foundation for moving into the future.

    Concerning the WASP question, we do have to acknowledge the fact the American heritage is built upon Anglo-Saxon culture and values, rather than abstract principles as we commonly see it today. Does that mean America is exclusively for WASPs? No, but we have to acknowledge that core in order to appreciate the American heritage.

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