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  1. #31
    seor member colmena's Avatar
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    Is there not also danger in finding purpose?

    Great tragedy: natural disaster, serial killers, famine, child molestation, the plane that crashed at Barajas airport....

    I wouldn't want "everything" to have reason.


    ...I'm sorry. I realise this is a tired, old discussion.
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    -What are you talking about?
    -Endymion, my dear. A beautiful youth possessed by the moon.
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  2. #32
    Senor Membrane
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beat View Post
    You guys are welcome to explore avenues within the topic, but I what I meant when I started the thread was do things happen for a reason, inferring that there is a universal plan of some sort.
    No, I don't believe in that sort of stuff. My plan is to be happy.

    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    No, I don't feel that way at all. I just think that things happen to use that ARE outside of our control all the time, and that we make a lot of our decisions reactively. I don't believe in "destiny" at all. We have control over what WE do.
    But, the more you react unconsciously, the less your destiny makes sense. By changing the unconscious attitude, you can shape your reactions and get a better grip of your destiny.

    Quote Originally Posted by colmena View Post
    Great tragedy: natural disaster, serial killers, famine, child molestation, the plane that crashed at Barajas airport....

    I wouldn't want "everything" to have reason.
    Many victims find a new meaning for their lives after great tragedy. I guess it is a way to cope, but part of it is the acceptance of the tragedy happening to you, kinda like accepting your destiny.

  3. #33
    RETIRED CzeCze's Avatar
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    Everything happens for a reason because you give it reason. That's the challenge of life.
    “If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.” ― Oscar Wilde

    "I'm outtie 5000" ― Romulux

    Johari/Nohari

  4. #34
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nolla View Post
    But, the more you react unconsciously, the less your destiny makes sense. By changing the unconscious attitude, you can shape your reactions and get a better grip of your destiny.
    I am just uncomfortable with the idea of "destiny." It seems to me that there are things we can control and shape, and then things that we cannot. We can, however, control our reactions to them. And I am of the belief that there is far more UNDER our control as human beings than most people do. People constantly bemoaning their lot in life annoy me. We have agency in what we do.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  5. #35
    Senior Member Ilah's Avatar
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    I think the it possible for good to come out of a tragic situation, but I don't believe that happens in all tragic situations. And even if it does, it doesn't mean that it happened for a reason.

    We have all read the stories about people who were layed off and decided to start their own business or go back to school. They now have their dream job which they would not have had if they didn't loose their old job. However, there any many who had to go on welfare or unemployment or take lower paying jobs they didn't like as much.

    I don't think it is accurate to say you learn things from a bad situation. A bad situation might motivate a person to learn some coping skill but it isn't a given. Take for example being poor. Some people might rise to the challange and study things like how to make a variety low cost meals, how to do your own home repair work, enough sewing skills to repair clothing, where to find the best prices for things, finding free festivals and events, etc. Other people will live on hot dogs and noodle ramen, in a home badly in need of repairs, complaining about how they never have money to buy new clothes or anything else or go anywhere. I have seen both types in real life.

    But not all situation have this learning potential either. I think you would be hard pressed find some one who said being abused as a child made them a better person.

  6. #36
    Senior Member Flush's Avatar
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    I think it's in human nature to apply meaning or significance to everything.

    However, I believe that everything happens just for the hell of it, and that we exist just for the hell of it.

    I wish I wouldn't think that way, it's depressing... Probably the top reason for past depressions. Perhaps I should try religion?
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  7. #37
    Senior Member swordpath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Owl View Post
    What do you mean?

    Are you wondering whether some form of the Principle of Sufficient Reason holds for the actual world, or are you wondering if there is an ethical component to events that occur in the actual world, i.e., that there is a good reason, a valuable reason, why all things unfold the way they do?
    I'll answer your question and chime in more when I'm off work. Browsing from my phone is freakin annoying.

  8. #38
    Wonderer Samuel De Mazarin's Avatar
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    It's very likely that everything happens for a reason (or set of reasons).

    But there's a problem when people assume they can somehow discern that reason (or set of reasons) with any degree of accuracy that's mensurable.

    And they begin to trust wholeheartedly in their explanations. They lose that healthy minimum of skepticism.

    And with the imposition of their possibly (read: usually) incorrect hypotheses of reason onto various events, they take another bold-blind and blind-bold leap into the unknown and project purpose(s)... They leap-frog the middle and focus on the beginning and end.

    ==> They end up misunderstanding the world, as opposed to merely not understanding it. And they misjudge even more wildly.

    And they become even unhappier than they would have been had they not tried to divine reasons for events about which they most likely can know very little.

    So it is alright to hypothesize reasons and perhaps feel one's way towards answers and practical solutions.

    But it is inconceivably dangerous to go head over heels searching for reasons for this, that, and the other.

    They lose sight of this, that, and the other. And become myopically concerned with fictional ideas of why-this, why-that, and why-the-other.

    Remember, the key is that why-this, why-that, and why-the-other are far more difficult to know than simply this, that, and the other.

    So let's focus on the what-is and not the why-what-is. Once we've understood the what-is, we can spend some leisure time on the why-what-is.

    ________________________________

    I foresee some forceful rebuttals, but I'm a step ahead. Essentially, I'm saying we pay more attention to the phenomena that can be reliably measured or, at the least, qualified, instead of seeking chimeras in star charts and divine plans.

    P.S. If one reads "reason" as cause-with-significance-beyond-itself then what I said still stands... I'd just change the first sentence to read that there could be a reason to everything, but we still would have no way of knowing it. It's all about epistemology, not metaphysics.

    P.P.S. I get the feeling that I subconsciously ripped this off from Jiddu Krishnamurti and only realized the alignment with his philosophy afterward.

    P.P.P.S. On the other hand, I very consciously imitated Night and Victor's posting styles. So enjoy.
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  9. #39
    unscannable Tigerlily's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    No, everything does not happen for a reason, but we, as thinking and feeling individuals, can assign importance to them that becomes real. There isn't a huge, complex "plan" out there (whether supernatural or just nature).
    I agree. You can easily convince yourself of anything if you believe in it. I like to tell myself that my deceased Grandmother sent my husband to me but it could have been timing. I put myself in a place (online) where I met loads of people and he was the one who stood out. Now I'm not saying I believe that but it's debatable.
    Time is a delicate mistress.

  10. #40
    Senior Membrane spirilis's Avatar
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    Yeah so, I guess in retrospect what I really meant was "everything has a cause" in the cause/effect sense of things. A "reason" in the philosophical sense, OTOH, is totally a personal judgment and open to a wide variety of personal bias and error. I still mandate you can find a reason for anything but yeah, such a reason might not be all that useful at times.

    The few times I do strongly consider the significance of reason include episodes of synchronicity--when I notice a coincidence of some kind that captures my interest. My goal in analyzing such situations is to determine why it has such personal interest to me and what that fact means for my future decisions.
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