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Thread: MBTI prayers

  1. #31
    Senior Member Lookin4theBestNU's Avatar
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    It's more like a hot stove than "It takes one to know one" isn't it, Lookin4theBestNU?
    I don't know what you mean but it sure sounds better!
    I don't think I understand what you mean by "entirely negative"? All the prayers are intended to expose a problem area for type in question, i.e. something negative.

    Mine, for instance, predicts that I will stubbornly cling to my 'thief' interpretation of the ENFJ prayer.
    I know you shall hold your ground. The F/T clash is going to make it difficult to communicate this the way that we both understand what I am babbling about. However what I mean by 'entirely negative' (though I am not taking a 'big' offense) is that the statement you made is not a jesting problem area for us. It's more like a fairly deep cut to the NF temperament/character. I want to be objective but it doesn't always work!
    If I understand you correctly, you do have a natural tendency to manipulate, but you do not project that tendency onto others?Your suspiciousness of others' motives instead comes from... what exactly?
    Yes I can be manipulative this is true but it would bother me deeply to do it purposefully. Through trial and error and having been hurt/used previously I know the signals of when someone is trying to manipulate me. In all honesty I don't think about it too much (projection) because I am pretty confident that someone couldn't do it without my knowledge. My suspiciousness comes more from reading too much into what people say and do. I am looking for the things they don't want me to see. I am usually accurate but not always of course. I hope that's better .
    "At points of clarity, I realize that my life on earth is meaningless, and that I am merely a pawn in a bigger game. A game I cannot possibly understand or have control of. Thankfully, before depression sets in, I drift back into my cloudy, bewildered daily routine." **Joel Patrick Warneke**

  2. #32
    Dhampyr Economica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    If it helps, I took L4BNU's comments to mean that your guess was entirely negative of the type, without being truly representative of the type (such an extreme generalization, or accentuating one negative so much that it ends up not being an accurate one).

    Perhaps a different angle would be that all of the prayers describe core qualities that are both good and bad (INTPs are independent; ISTJs are precise; ENFPs jump from one thing to the next; ISFJs are responsible/perfectionists)... but the word "manipulative" is always negative.
    I have thought of my own prayer as entirely negative, but I guess a case could be made that there is something positive about militantly advocating one's ideas. Convinces some of 'em some of the time, anyway.

    That's it, I'm out of coherency and off to bed.

  3. #33
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    I think selfishness is necessary.

    I think it's essential for one to look out for himself no matter what. Even if it involves stepping on another's toes, then so be it. That's what war is for. And whoever wins that war is superior.

    (The whole concept of everyone being created equal is rather naive, actually.)

  4. #34
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Hmm. I see self-interest as neutral, not bad, unless it is self-interest with no regard for anyone else at all. Otherwise, unprovoked malice is bad and altruism (though it can never be pure) is good. Provoked malice is neither bad, nor good. It is simply to be expected. The cost of incurring malice should be counted beforehand. Sometimes one can provoke malice unintentionally, in that case, one should attempt to iron out the misunderstanding if possible.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  5. #35
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    ENTP: Lord, help me follow established procedures today. On second thought, I'll settle for a few minutes.
    Hm, I've kinda made peace with some established procedures by learning the history and significance behind them so that I can be cool with not 'fixing what ain't broken'. What I tend to pray more often is: "Give me the stuff I need to do the things I need to do", meaning, I spend a lot of my life going from one sink-or-swim situation to another, so help me to keep swimming!

    I might also say "God, please shut my Si up, it's giving me a headache and you and I both know that I don't want to settle down. In fact, if you could give me a big hippie bus I could live on, that'd really piss it off nicely!"
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

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  6. #36
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Economica View Post

    It sounds like the problem for ENFJs is "thief thinks every man steals" syndrome. You are naturally discerning and people-pleasing at the same time which often amounts to being manipulative - even if you don't intend to be - and you fear others' attention and goodwill is similarly fickle.

    I guess it's a hit. How about that.
    I wouldn't say fickle. It's more like L4BNU said: acutely aware of the spectrum of possible motivations. I can't believe what someone is telling me to be 100% true just because it's a good sob story or they make themselves out to be the victim. And just cause I'm listening to you doesn't mean I agree with you. Many people take my listening as tacit approval of their actions, which isn't always the case. When they find out that I didn't agree with what they did, then they think I've manipulated them in some way. Not true, I believe everyone needs to vent to someone so I provided that. I may have believed a person initially but eventually it was shown that everything was not as they perceived it or they did something to cause it. Usually they say it themselves (I have a very good memory) and it contradicts something they've already said. When this happens repeatedly (and I'm trying not to exaggerate but it's very very common), I tune out but although I'm still there.

  7. #37
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lookin4theBestNU View Post
    I don't know what you mean but it sure sounds better!
    I mean that there is more than one way a person can learn to become suspicious of the motives of others. One way is to have dubious motives oneself (it takes one to know one). The other way is to have had bad experiences from not being suspicious of the motives of others (like burning yourself on a hot stove- you know stoves can be hot because you've been burned, not because you yourself are a hot stove) and learning from hard experience that things are not always what they seem.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  8. #38
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    Oh, and I was referring to Jen's last post with my last post.

    I really hate it when people say violence doesn't solve anything. As far as I'm concerned, the only way to solve problems is through violence. For example: we ended WWII by bombing the Japs. And we may just have to bomb them again because they're controlling our children's minds with Nintendo, indicating that WWII may never have really ended...

  9. #39
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uberfuhrer View Post
    Oh, and I was referring to Jen's last post with my last post. I really hate it when people say violence doesn't solve anything. As far as I'm concerned, the only way to solve problems is through violence. For example: we ended WWII by bombing the Japs. And we may just have to bomb them again because they're controlling our children's minds with Nintendo, indicating that WWII may never have really ended...
    Are you actually serious?

    (Not that I was taking a stance back there, I was just trying to explain one way to interpret what the ENFJs were saying.)

    In any case, I think violence is far too simplistic and shows an inability to create inclusive bonds with others. Is a human being able to become actualized without extending their personal boundaries to include other people?

    And is a human being always better off being entirely self-focused in their pursuits? Often we destroy ourselves by our own self-absorptions; it actually works out that what seemed beneficial for us in the short term was NOT the best thing for us in the long run.

    Thoughtless/Compulsive violence simply begets more violence, creating a no-win scenario for everyone.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  10. #40
    ~*taaa raaa raaa boom*~ targobelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    Hm, I've kinda made peace with some established procedures by learning the history and significance behind them so that I can be cool with not 'fixing what ain't broken'. What I tend to pray more often is: "Give me the stuff I need to do the things I need to do", meaning, I spend a lot of my life going from one sink-or-swim situation to another, so help me to keep swimming!

    I might also say "God, please shut my Si up, it's giving me a headache and you and I both know that I don't want to settle down. In fact, if you could give me a big hippie bus I could live on, that'd really piss it off nicely!"


    interesting take on life

    so um what happens to that poor entp when he finally does settle down?


    you know what I find interesting, not just in this thread but in many here at MBTI is the lack of enfp input. But um yeah the prayer does sound about..... wait did I forget to read something...... right
    ~t ...in need of hugs please...
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    Extroverted (E) 63.16% Intuitive (N) 60.53% Feeling (F) 84.38% Perceiving (P) 87.1% ~Your type is: ENFP

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