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Thread: MBTI prayers

  1. #21
    Senior Member girlnamedbless's Avatar
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    Not really... I think I'm patient.
    I bet they'll put something in the air tonight, just to light your face.

  2. #22
    Dhampyr Economica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by girlnamedbless View Post
    Not really... I think I'm patient.
    Is that a learned skill?

    If not, are you sure those around you agree that you're patient?

    ...If you're truly and naturally patient, then I guess the ESFJ one can be improved as well.

  3. #23
    Dhampyr Economica's Avatar
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    Lookin4theBestNU and proteanmix, thank you, your responses are most enlightening.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lookin4theBestNU View Post
    I take very little of what people say at face value. Long before I had words (MBTI) to describe the way my thinking went I noticed something was different. I take what people say and think about the thoughts before that led up to the statement and your next possible thoughts after that <----the important part. I'm suspicious of peoples' motivations/intentions so yes I think that could be considered a trust issue. I'm not listening to what they say presently. I'm looking for all things hidden if that makes sense.
    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    I've heard it said that ENFJs are warm on the outside, cool on the inside. I think that's true.

    (...)

    But I know I appear to care (sometimes I do, sometimes I don't) and people disclose a lot to me.

    (...)
    Because I'm sometimes unsure of my motivations I project that out onto others.
    It sounds like the problem for ENFJs is "thief thinks every man steals" syndrome. You are naturally discerning and people-pleasing at the same time which often amounts to being manipulative - even if you don't intend to be - and you fear others' attention and goodwill is similarly fickle.

    I guess it's a hit. How about that.

  4. #24
    Senior Member Lookin4theBestNU's Avatar
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    It sounds like the problem for ENFJs is "thief thinks every man steals" syndrome. You are naturally discerning and people-pleasing at the same time which often amounts to being manipulative - even if you don't intend to be - and you fear others' attention and goodwill is similarly fickle.

    I guess it's a hit. How about that.
    Hmmmm no it's certainly not a direct hit-unless you are aiming for entirely negative. Let me explain further and see where that takes it. I am sensitive to good and evil which proceeds within everyone including myself. Dramatic-sounding but those are the only words I can think of atm. This is different from right/wrong though in appearance they may seem the same. I'd agree they go together at times when you throw in the J, but actually much rarer than most would assume. 'Goodwill' in many of it's forms has been with me since I was small. This is where my nature comes in. 'Goodwill' is sometimes a choice however-and it can be difficult when it would be easier to make the selfish choice. This is where nurture comes in. I understand that sometimes others go through this exact same thing. I watch people to see where their 'natural' decision-making processes lead them. I have experienced that most people are quite comfortable choosing to put themselves first every time. I've learned from people sucking the life out of me for their own benefit will happen often if I allow it. Experience/pain rather than internal desire for 'evil-doing' has proven to be the best teacher. Manipulation can be a problem for me though most often it's unintentional. I will often realize after the fact that I totally lead that person to do this or that but even that's rare. This maybe what you concluded but the 'thief' statement just doesn't ring true from my pov.
    "At points of clarity, I realize that my life on earth is meaningless, and that I am merely a pawn in a bigger game. A game I cannot possibly understand or have control of. Thankfully, before depression sets in, I drift back into my cloudy, bewildered daily routine." **Joel Patrick Warneke**

  5. #25
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    It's more like a hot stove than "It takes one to know one" isn't it, Lookin4theBestNU?
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  6. #26
    Dhampyr Economica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lookin4theBestNU View Post
    Hmmmm no it's certainly not a direct hit-unless you are aiming for entirely negative.
    I don't think I understand what you mean by "entirely negative"? All the prayers are intended to expose a problem area for type in question, i.e. something negative.

    Mine, for instance, predicts that I will stubbornly cling to my 'thief' interpretation of the ENFJ prayer.

    Manipulation can be a problem for me though most often it's unintentional. I will often realize after the fact that I totally lead that person to do this or that but even that's rare. This maybe what you concluded but the 'thief' statement just doesn't ring true from my pov.
    *trying my best to be objective*

    If I understand you correctly, you do have a natural tendency to manipulate, but you do not project that tendency onto others?

    Your suspiciousness of others' motives instead comes from... what exactly? (If it is obvious from your posts, ignore the question, I'll realize it in the morning. It's been a long day.)

  7. #27
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Economica View Post
    Your suspiciousness of others' motives instead comes from... what exactly? (If it is obvious from your posts, ignore the question, I'll realize it in the morning. It's been a long day.)
    Couldn't it come from being repeatedly screwed over?
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  8. #28
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Economica View Post
    I don't think I understand what you mean by "entirely negative"? All the prayers are intended to expose a problem area for type in question, i.e. something negative.
    If it helps, I took L4BNU's comments to mean that your guess was entirely negative of the type, without being truly representative of the type (such an extreme generalization, or accentuating one negative so much that it ends up not being an accurate one).

    Perhaps a different angle would be that all of the prayers describe core qualities that are both good and bad (INTPs are independent; ISTJs are precise; ENFPs jump from one thing to the next; ISFJs are responsible/perfectionists)... but the word "manipulative" is always negative.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  9. #29
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    Funny, I thought the INTJ was the most independent.

  10. #30
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    From what I can tell from knowing some ENFJs and reading this, I think ENFJ has a very realistic perception of people and where they are at “spiritually.” (Do not take that word literally, I just do not know how else to refer to the good/evil aspect of people that L4BNU mentions.)

    People do self-centered things (bad) and they do other-centered things or things that transcend their own selfish/personal needs (good).

    People tend to be selfish (“bad”) as far as their natural process goes but sometimes learn to be “good” over time.

    I am admittedly a little hazy on the next part, but sometimes an ENFJ can be taken advantage of, so even if she doesn’t want to harm others, she can still act in self-centered ways or manipulate people to do the “good” thing both for their benefit and for hers. (Is that at ALL close? I’m just taking my best guess.)
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

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