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  1. #101
    Senior Member Snail's Avatar
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    Default My grandma scares me.

    Any type can go bad, but certain types have a more frightening and sinister version of bad when that happens.

    Judge Judy scares me. She reminds me of my ESTJ grandmother, and I would guess that she is the same type. I have never agreed with a single thing that I have heard Judge Judy say, and she is a tyrranical, insensitive, controlling bully with a personal vendetta against anything N or P. An evil ESTJ cannot be reasoned with, becomes verbally aggressive and insensitive, is overbearing and will treat even the most valid excuses or explanations as if they are false rationalizations designed to be defensive of the victim's supposed laziness instead of a unique set of personally decided priorities. My grandmother sees me as irresponsible because I do not define success the same way she does, and she hates how impractical I am for being so concerned with what is ethical. She is the Anti-Snail! If we were to overlap in any way on any idea, the resulting explosion would probably destroy all of space-time and the universe would cease to exist. It would be a mystical event: a manifestation of a known impossibility.

    An unhealthy INTP can be terrifying when the shadow side comes out, but an ENTJ might be worse if what I hear is accurate. I've never known one.

  2. #102
    Scream down the boulevard LadyJaye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jen View Post
    the difference is that ENTJ's (like INTJ's) are rarely wrong
    Entj's are frequently wrong. They just never believe they are.



    Quote Originally Posted by SillyGoose View Post
    I can't say any type scares me.

    In fact, I'm thinking that any unhealthy type is the type you don't want to be around.
    That basically sums it up. I like each type for many reasons. I can't say I detest a type, just the individual, though it's unrealistic to not expect that certain aspects of each type are characteristically grating.

    I think I had the hardest time with ESTJ/ ISTJ growing up, because I had several who really made me feel like I was being dragged by my face. Not to say that I dislike the type, just that I had the most trouble with on the level of maintaining my personal freedoms.

  3. #103
    Emerging Tallulah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    This makes sense, but I don't really feel as if ESFJs are particularly passive-aggressive. More like aggressive-aggressive and outspoken.
    Yeah, that's probably true.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tallulah View Post
    I think those who have a REALLY strong J and like to motivate others will HATE INTPs, because we hate to feel like we're someone's pawn or that we've lost our autonomy. That's when you see our stubborn side come out, and it's more a product of the chemistry of two clashing personality types than just an INTP thing itself. The INTP in question might be perfectly cooperative with someone who's more respectful of his/her autonomy.
    This language is loaded in a pro-INTP way. You make it sound as if the onus should be on the non-INTP to be "more respectful," rather than on the INTP being "cooperative." I find it interesting that you use the word "autonomy" as much as you do, as well. How often is the loss of autonomy really an issue? You certainly do NOT lose autonomy in life simply because someone else says you should do something.
    Yeah, this stuff is hard to explain without sounding pro-my-own-type, but honestly, I'm just trying to explain why we can come across as almost childish in our resistance sometimes. What people don't realize, b/c in writing is where INTPs get all their frustrations out, is that IRL we really do compromise and let stuff roll all the time. A lot of the time, we'll be the flexible person in a relationship, because there are things that usually wouldn't hit our radar are important to the other party and not worth a fight. Though we can come across as abrasive in print sometimes, we're pretty laidback IRL. So we're not asking for everyone else to be more respectful without doing it ourselves. It's just that we might be doing it all the time and never make a show of it or even mention it. It will probably never even come up in a fight. ("Well, I do this for YOU all the time!")

    No, someone else can't make you lose your autonomy. But there are more aggressive personalities that make it seem like it's their way or no way, or that are naturally more vocal about their opinions, without being respectful of the other party's (which is not a type thing, but a maturity thing). It just starts to feel like an infringement, and then the INTP finally feels the need to set a boundary or avoid the other person so as not to have conflict. I'm not defending or saying one way is better than another. But it's a difference in operating. I've never really found a way around it. I just don't do well around very aggressive personalities, unless we've really gotten to know each other one-on-one and both realize that we have different ways of approaching things and can keep that in mind about each other.

    I still don't feel like I've said all this right, but it's the best I can do for now.

  4. #104
    unscannable Tigerlily's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LadyJaye View Post
    Entj's are frequently wrong. They just never believe they are.
    I take it you've had a bad experience with one? Honestly I don't think I've come into contact with any minus the few that post here, so my assumption could be wrong. Now that you mention it I know an INTJ who isn't always right and getting this person to admit they're wrong is nearly impossible.
    Time is a delicate mistress.

  5. #105
    Scream down the boulevard LadyJaye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jen View Post
    I take it you've had a bad experience with one? Honestly I don't think I've come into contact with any minus the few that post here, so my assumption could be wrong.
    I've dealt with several over the course of my life, and each one was quite an experience, both good and bad. I've been very close friends with a female ENTJ for 15+ years, and the qualities I love her for are also the same qualities that drive me nuts. We are able to speak frankly with each other, which I greatly appreciate, and has actually made it more difficult for me to speak to others at times who aren't as open to blunt talk as we are. But the power trips she adopts sometimes, especially when she's on a "logical" tear, are frequently nightmarish, because she fails to see that her logic is influenced by her humanity, which is flawed and prone to error.


    Now that you mention it I know an INTJ who isn't always right and getting this person to admit they're wrong is nearly impossible.
    Could this be the very same man who is entertaining dirty thoughts about a certain Andie MacDowell?!

  6. #106
    unscannable Tigerlily's Avatar
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    my dear lady, I've no idea what you're talking about. *pursed lips*
    Time is a delicate mistress.

  7. #107
    Scream down the boulevard LadyJaye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jen View Post
    my dear lady, I've no idea what you're talking about. *pursed lips*
    Of course! What kind of crazy jive talk was I doing?!

  8. #108
    Senior Member Anonymous's Avatar
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    E-FJs can annoy the shit out of me. Many are quite nice, sure, but some of them can be real zealots. Especially the very religious ones. Some ENFJs I've come across are really, really defensive (my sister is one of them) and this especially annoys me.

    ESTJs can also freak me out, mostly because they can remind me of the types who would wholeheartedly support the Spanish Inquisition.

  9. #109
    Senior Member ZiL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallulah View Post
    Yeah, this stuff is hard to explain without sounding pro-my-own-type, but honestly, I'm just trying to explain why we can come across as almost childish in our resistance sometimes. What people don't realize, b/c in writing is where INTPs get all their frustrations out, is that IRL we really do compromise and let stuff roll all the time. A lot of the time, we'll be the flexible person in a relationship, because there are things that usually wouldn't hit our radar are important to the other party and not worth a fight. Though we can come across as abrasive in print sometimes, we're pretty laidback IRL. So we're not asking for everyone else to be more respectful without doing it ourselves. It's just that we might be doing it all the time and never make a show of it or even mention it. It will probably never even come up in a fight. ("Well, I do this for YOU all the time!")

    No, someone else can't make you lose your autonomy. But there are more aggressive personalities that make it seem like it's their way or no way, or that are naturally more vocal about their opinions, without being respectful of the other party's (which is not a type thing, but a maturity thing). It just starts to feel like an infringement, and then the INTP finally feels the need to set a boundary or avoid the other person so as not to have conflict. I'm not defending or saying one way is better than another. But it's a difference in operating. I've never really found a way around it. I just don't do well around very aggressive personalities, unless we've really gotten to know each other one-on-one and both realize that we have different ways of approaching things and can keep that in mind about each other.

    I still don't feel like I've said all this right, but it's the best I can do for now.

    I gotta say, I can relate to this, and I'm now pretty positive that I'm an ENTP, and definitely a heavy P. Heavy heavy J-types in general scare me because of pretty much what you've written above. I thrive on the feeling that I can exchange my ideas without having to make final statements/judgements about them, and so when I get into a discussion with a very opinionated person, I feel out of my element. When I'm in control of the discussion, I'm far more outspoken, though I still rarely drop definitive opinions. Feeling obligated to say with certainty "I believe this," pretty much leads my mind to shut out the conversation at hand and start working out an escape plan. It does indeed feel like someone is trying to cut into my autonomy and lead me to their watering hole. Now, that doesn't mean that's their real intention, but that's the way it makes me feel. I leave thinking they're dogmatic and judgmental, and they surely leave thinking I'm dithering and weak-minded. Thing is, I bet some of the heavy J-types internally aren't as certain as they sound, but they make it look that way on the outside - and that communication style inevitably makes me uncomfortable. And I'm sure they hate talking to my pansy ass just as much.
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  10. #110
    veteran attention whore Jeffster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ceecee View Post
    E/ISFP
    Boo!

    ceecee: eek! :horor:

    (the preceding was just a dramatization.)
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