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Thread: Fighting Racism

  1. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Yeah there's nothing to unite those very disparite and differing groups other than they are equal measures hated by conservatives. Its a pretty lousy and reductive we oppose "them" sort of thinking.

    Marxism cant be reduced to opposing electorialism, parliamentarianism, universal sufferage or representative democracy, of which Marx was actually fan, especially in the US, and which he thought was likely to result in communism. Still less merely violence.

    If communism and marxism were extinct then there's a lot of people in wall street taking it seriously when picking their stock options and trading shares, Pikety and others are using Marx's insights into class struggles, again something which predates Marx and Marxism and sadly in the USSR and similar states post dated it, to explain events such as the global financial crisis.

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    I dont know it worked pretty well in defeating nazism and fascism.
    That was the exception, not the rule.
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  2. #72

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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Qwan View Post
    That was the exception, not the rule.
    I'm afraid I cant agree, although dont take my word for it there's a good book released at the moment called virtuous violence check it out.

  3. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I'm afraid I cant agree, although dont take my word for it there's a good book released at the moment called virtuous violence check it out.
    I may.

    What do you think of the Dalai Lama?
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  4. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Qwan View Post
    That was the exception, not the rule.
    Totalitarianism uses violence to gain and hold power, while liberal democracy limits power by replacing violence with free speech.

    And notice all totalitarianisms, such as Communism, National Socialism and Islam, oppose free speech, while liberal democracy is based on free speech.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    Totalitarianism uses violence to gain and hold power, while liberal democracy limits power by replacing violence with free speech.

    And notice all totalitarianisms, such as Communism, National Socialism and Islam, oppose free speech, while liberal democracy is based on free speech.
    My point exactly.
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  6. #76
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  7. #77

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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Qwan View Post
    I may.

    What do you think of the Dalai Lama?
    I confess I dont often, he is a religious leader, much the same as the Pope or Ian Paisley, I dont follow that particular religion so I dont know that much about it.

    I have a couple of his books but I've not read them, the best thinking on non-violence was Ghandi's without a doubt and I've read a lot of his books, its not good to quote it out of context but the quote from Ghandi in the remake of the A Team was a good one, no one should adopt non-violence because they feel they can not use force, it shouldnt be the last resort, you either are choosing it or you are not.

    I know that I cant say I would do that. I would be very slow to endorse violence, most of the time its a gesture of or exercise in futility, but it is justified then I say go right ahead with it, the justification I believe is supplied in just war theory. Although that is all very rational and its not entirely a rational decision, I'll admit, if you watch The Mission with Robert De Niro there are two characters one chooses non-violence, one chooses violence but they both meet the same fate, ultimately they both made their own decision for their own reasons (and the violence on that occasion was a futile, "take as many of them with me as possible" gesture).
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  8. #78

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    Totalitarianism uses violence to gain and hold power, while liberal democracy limits power by replacing violence with free speech.

    And notice all totalitarianisms, such as Communism, National Socialism and Islam, oppose free speech, while liberal democracy is based on free speech.
    I think that liberal democracy has for the majority of its lifespan existed without free speech, certainly without unqualified free speech, the US is an exception because of its history of constitutionalism, binding laws and civil libertarianism, those are not necessarily synonymous with liberal democracy.

    Totalitarinaism, being totalising, requires a state of mobilisation, permanent mobilisation, on the part of the individual and society. That is the main difference, since, theoretically, mobilisation in liberal democracies is time limited, usually just during election campaigns, when you choose representatives, and which do not require your participation or mobilisation in any case.

    The difference between totalitarianism and other political ideologies is the distinctions between political, public and private life and conscience. Totalitarianism usually makes no distinction, how you think and behave politically, publically or privately must be consistent and correspond to the ideology alone. I think that perhaps that makes sense if you adopt that as a personal challenge or coda but as a social policy or world view its impossible, anyone will fall short or be found wanting against that measure and usually that failing, which is human, will provoke punishment from totalitarian thinkers.

  9. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I confess I dont often, he is a religious leader, much the same as the Pope or Ian Paisley, I dont follow that particular religion so I dont know that much about it.

    I have a couple of his books but I've not read them, the best thinking on non-violence was Ghandi's without a doubt and I've read a lot of his books, its not good to quote it out of context but the quote from Ghandi in the remake of the A Team was a good one, no one should adopt non-violence because they feel they can not use force, it shouldnt be the last resort, you either are choosing it or you are not.

    I know that I cant say I would do that. I would be very slow to endorse violence, most of the time its a gesture of or exercise in futility, but it is justified then I say go right ahead with it, the justification I believe is supplied in just war theory. Although that is all very rational and its not entirely a rational decision, I'll admit, if you watch The Mission with Robert De Niro there are two characters one chooses non-violence, one chooses violence but they both meet the same fate, ultimately they both made their own decision for their own reasons (and the violence on that occasion was a futile, "take as many of them with me as possible" gesture).
    I choose nonviolence for ethical reasons. That said, I can at least see where violence proponents are coming from, even if I ultimately disagree with them. I think we can agree that Hitler was a horrible man.
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    I say this as a reminder to myself, but this goes for everyone:

    You can achieve anything you set your mind to, and you are limited only by how dedicated you are to succeed!

    -Magic Qwan

  10. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kullervo View Post
    Short version: They are violent both because they are poor and because they are black.
    C'mon, the wealth of America was built on 300 years of institutional slavery. And most of the descendants of those slaves have been excluded from the wealth of America.

    So the purpose of racism is to hide this historical fact.

    And naturally we hate those we have wronged, and call it racism.
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