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Thread: Fighting Racism

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    Quote Originally Posted by chickpea View Post
    i don't presume i have the power to change an adult's opinion on anything, and if i can they probably didn't have a very strong opinion to begin with. if someone is committed to being actively racist/discriminatory, good luck to them.
    Well, I wouldnt wish them luck, I dont think because something may prove difficult that its not worth doing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasofy View Post
    A bunch of socialists. I'm getting a bit off-topic tho.
    I dont think you are right about that but I'm pretty sure you arent interested.

    An average marxist would attribute that to socio-economic factors, which definitely is part of the equation - kudos for them for recognizing what most conservatives don't wanna face -, but is that all?
    Do you know any average marxists? What are they like? What makes them average and what makes them marxists?

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackDog View Post
    Ummm, no. I'm advocating the combination and mixing of peoples. Their genetic signature is there just as much as before, only it's mixed with the genotypes of many other peoples. Plus, there is no 'hard line' of racial difference anyway; these differences are in no fundamental way significant. Or at least I don't believe so.
    Deliberately mixing peoples eliminates their original phenotypes. That is the removal of a unique genetic signature, and hence genocide under international law. I have also shown people in other threads that data of genetic distances supports the traditional way we classify races. If you want to question race itself, feel free, but don't expect to be taken seriously outside a liberal bubble.

    You are placing value judgements on what is and is not significant. Nobody in my camp denies that there is substantial genetic variation within an ethnic group. We just acknowledge that there are genetic differences between groups as well, and they should not be ignored for political reasons.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackDog View Post
    The expected results are not occurring because people continue to believe in race. It's a fairly obvious thing that we can see, unlike many other things like intelligence, temperament, propensity for heart disease, etc. Just because it is obvious doesn't mean it is significant compared to these other factors, or that humans are logical to weigh it. It just means its obvious.
    People are not taught to believe in race, it's just how we naturally organise. For this reason, you will have to invest significant energy in trying to change people's attitudes on race. If you want evidence of this, I'd point out that there isn't a massive difference between conservatives and liberals' rates of interracial marriage, which is what you would expect if people were "taught" to be "racist".

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackDog View Post
    A solution is to 'help' people further by using education to strongly encourage them to look past race. Since we agree race is an illogical means of segregating populations, why isn't this a good project? We're helping them pay attention to more important factors.
    I would question your origins and motivations, as you've already told me that you yourself don't intend to contribute to this process of interbreeding. While I have never given my opinion on the matter, if you wish to segregate a society doing so racially would be one of the more "stable" ways. People band along ethnic/racial lines in times of stress. Gender and even class are not as strongly defining.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackDog View Post
    The state is meant to look out for the welfare of all the people. You can only call it 'government indoctrination and coercion' if you do in fact believe that race is an important enough difference to make mating/marital decisions off of. If you in fact don't believe that, then it is the government helping people to put things in proper perspective, and to pay attention to more important factors.
    The state (at least in America) was not intended by the Founders to influence people's private lives. It is debatable whether the state should even provide a public education system, and assuming it should, I would have thought we could all agree on political neutrality. Let children make up their own minds about politics. "The government" in this case is really people who agree with your worldview, as I am sure that if the government was nationalistic you would change your perspective very quickly. I would not.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackDog View Post
    'Organic society' is a temporary and unstable situation. They don't have to be 'made' to do so; they can be educated to pay attention to more important things.
    A society that takes into account the natural order of being is more likely to be stable than one which constantly fights against it. That is basic.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackDog View Post
    My personal behavior has little to do with my position; either my case is logical given my premise that different 'races' is unstable, or it is not. Nor do I think my plan would be 'utopia'; it would just help unify the population in this specific way.

    I am personally doing nothing to bring about this outcome; that is the responsibility of the ones guiding the 'nation-state'. I'm just pointing out what seems like the logical conclusion of multiculturalism, and saying that I agree with it if it comes.
    We've had distinct races for a good chunk of human history, and there have been stable and unstable periods within that time. I of course agree with you that in the very few years that different races have lived in the same country, we've had a rise in conflict. I do not, however, see how forcibly interbreeding people is logical, let alone moral or inevitable. If you are averse to violence, it would be far easier to simply restrict immigration and remove the people who are already here. You seem opposed to this, so I can only assume that you have other motivations.

    The fact that you are personally doing nothing to bring about the outcome you desire does not surprise me in the slightest; deep down you know that I am right. You do not find women from other races attractive. It is for this reason that I am quite optimistic that the whole liberal project will fall apart within my lifetime.
    Last edited by Kullervo; 01-24-2015 at 03:46 PM.

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    In response to the OP -- only glanced through the rest of the thread:

    I believe that exposure is the key. Children need to be aware of and exposed to different cultures from a young age. People tend to fear/hate what they don't understand. This teaches tolerance. I believe literature offers an 'insider' view to different cultures, and should be promoted much more than it is.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kullervo View Post
    Deliberately mixing peoples eliminates their original phenotypes. That is the removal of a unique genetic signature, and hence genocide under international law. I have also shown people in other threads that data of genetic distances supports the traditional way we classify races. If you want to question race itself, feel free, but don't expect to be taken seriously outside a liberal bubble.
    And mixing a group of similar phenotypes within itself to infinity will inevitably amount to inbreeding.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Nihilogen View Post
    And mixing a group of similar phenotypes within itself to infinity will inevitably amount to inbreeding.
    That's a poor argument as it only applies to groups that are inbred. There is actually no added genetic benefit to outbreeding beyond a 4th cousin distance, and most ethnic groups have enough genetic diversity to sustain themselves. Human races certainly do. In other words, mixed race and single race people are just as healthy as each other on average.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nihilogen View Post
    I even have a whole hypothesis that Europe/the West became an imperial world superpower because overmixing white genes made them too unempathetic and violent and that's why they enslaved half the world. And that it made Eastern cultures more reserved/isolated which made it take longer for them to adapt to a changing modern landscape, and that's why the Qing fiasco happened.
    If that's not "racist"...then nothing I have ever posted on here is.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kullervo View Post
    That's a poor argument as it only applies to groups that are inbred. There is actually no added genetic benefit to outbreeding beyond a 4th cousin distance, and most ethnic groups have enough genetic diversity to sustain themselves. Human races certainly do. In other words, mixed race and single race people are just as healthy as each other on average.



    If that's not "racist"...then nothing I have ever posted on here is.
    Yes, that was pretty racist.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Do you know any average marxists? What are they like? What makes them average and what makes them marxists?
    The Marxist Left here want to replace Liberal Democracy with Communism. And naturally they don't plan to do this by democratic means, so they plan to use violence.

    Fortunately Communism came to an end in 1989 at the fall of the Berlin Wall, and we now confine the rump of the Marxist Left to the Universities.

    However rather than accept defeat, the Marxist Left have allied themselves with the Islamists as both want to end Liberal Democracy by violent means.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    The Marxist Left here want to replace Liberal Democracy with Communism. And naturally they don't plan to do this by democratic means, so they plan to use violence.

    Fortunately Communism came to an end in 1989 at the fall of the Berlin Wall, and we now confine the rump of the Marxist Left to the Universities.

    However rather than accept defeat, the Marxist Left have allied themselves with the Islamists as both want to end Liberal Democracy by violent means.
    Violence solves nothing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    The Marxist Left here want to replace Liberal Democracy with Communism. And naturally they don't plan to do this by democratic means, so they plan to use violence.

    Fortunately Communism came to an end in 1989 at the fall of the Berlin Wall, and we now confine the rump of the Marxist Left to the Universities.

    However rather than accept defeat, the Marxist Left have allied themselves with the Islamists as both want to end Liberal Democracy by violent means.
    Yeah there's nothing to unite those very disparite and differing groups other than they are equal measures hated by conservatives. Its a pretty lousy and reductive we oppose "them" sort of thinking.

    Marxism cant be reduced to opposing electorialism, parliamentarianism, universal sufferage or representative democracy, of which Marx was actually fan, especially in the US, and which he thought was likely to result in communism. Still less merely violence.

    If communism and marxism were extinct then there's a lot of people in wall street taking it seriously when picking their stock options and trading shares, Pikety and others are using Marx's insights into class struggles, again something which predates Marx and Marxism and sadly in the USSR and similar states post dated it, to explain events such as the global financial crisis.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Qwan View Post
    Violence solves nothing.
    I dont know it worked pretty well in defeating nazism and fascism.

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