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Thread: Fighting Racism

  1. #11
    Sweet Ocean Cloud SD45T-2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinker683 View Post
    I REALLY wanted to ask him exactly how one goes about removing "blackness" from a house, but decided against it.
    By playing a bunch of Barry Manilow?
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  2. #12
    Senior Member BlackDog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kullervo View Post
    I don't expect to make any friends by posting this, but anyway...
    You should realize that even if you were right, the best course for any wise and moral person would be to suppress the facts, including academics. According to the big picture, although I would have to penalize them if I caught them as a Dean or whatever, I would from a moral perspective applaud any Ph.D. who faked study data if it indicated racial difference.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kullervo View Post
    I believe that the rate of crime is only partly due to socioeconomic factors. If you were right MQ, then people from different racial groups who have equivalent incomes would commit crimes at a very similar rate, and this is not the case.
    But you're forgetting cultural factors created by historical contingency that might affect the black community in America and not the Jewish or East Asian communities.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kullervo View Post
    Minority groups are also not always underrepresented in the higher echelons of society - Jews and East Asians are actually overrepresented (think banking, media and technology). Therefore, racial discrimination clearly can't be the main reason for disparities.
    True. But historical contingency. Your conclusion doesn't follow.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kullervo View Post
    Average intelligence, however, has a good correlation with average income, and one of the dirtiest secrets in psychology is that racial gaps in intelligence exist. Unsurprisingly, there's a trend of groups with the highest average IQ being the most well off - and as a result they have a more stable family structure and are less likely to fall into violence.
    Effects of Heredity and Environment on Intelligence | Education.com

    This is a decent summary of how environment can affect intelligence. Further, I've heard the existing twin studies criticized; it could be the case that if children receive above a certain 'floor value' of environmental positives, their IQs track around .72; however, these studies rarely involve twins where one is adopted below the 'floor value' threshold and the other well above; thus, we don't know how much minority community IQ is affected negatively by environment.

    We should therefore provisionally conclude that there is no difference between racial groups because this conclusion is possible, and it is the only acceptable conclusion. Even if, which I don't admit, studies found that no such 'floor value' of environmental stimulation exists, the best thing would be to ignore them and move on with the conclusion society needs. Racial integration is needed by society, and every good citizen should support it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kullervo View Post
    Short version: They are violent both because they are poor and because they are black.
    Not true.
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  3. #13
    Pubic Enemy #1 Crabs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackDog View Post
    You should realize that even if you were right, the best course for any wise and moral person would be to suppress the facts, including academics. According to the big picture, although I would have to penalize them if I caught them as a Dean or whatever, I would from a moral perspective applaud any Ph.D. who faked study data if it indicated racial difference.
    i haven't done enough research on the subject to form a strong opinion, but i find it hard to accept the notion that suppressing facts and faking data in order to support a particular worldview is somehow morally superior. in fact, i would suggest the opposite. truth isn't the enemy. it's much less taboo to discuss racial trends in athletic performance than it is in cognitive ability, but to ignore facts simply because we don't like them is neither morally nor progressively prudent.

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    Senior Member BlackDog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pixie sticks View Post
    i haven't done enough research on the subject to form a strong opinion, but i find it hard to accept the notion that suppressing facts and faking data in order to support a particular worldview is somehow morally superior. in fact, i would suggest the opposite. truth isn't the enemy. it's much less taboo to discuss racial trends in athletic performance than it is in cognitive ability, but to ignore facts because we don't like them is neither morally nor progressively prudent.
    'Facts' are always subject to future change in their interpretation, but humans must act on them as if they are absolutes. In modern society today we have a vital need to unify our people. As long as race is viewed as important this cannot happen. If race has any empirical validity, it will be viewed as important. So the obvious conclusion is that for the preservation of our society our view must be that racial differences do not and cannot exist. Due to what people have been taught and trends in immigration, this is a hard line to convince most people of.

    Therefore a huge number of interracial relationships is one of the best longterm solutions to race problems; simply extinguish the apparent differences that way. But this unifying process will be impeded by idiotic academic studies trying to stoke racial conflict. Any academic who produces such a study has betrayed his society. Such a person is either ignorant or malicious.

    Loyalty to the greater good of society is displayed not only in the answers we give to questions, but in which questions we choose to ask. There are many fruitful topics for investigation. Racial differences are not one of them.
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  5. #15
    deplorable basketcase Tellenbach's Avatar
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    " I tell you what affirmative action is, soft bigotry, low expectations. Affirmative action is a racist insult disguised as social justice by the Democrats." Rush Limbaugh

    Many of the elites in academia and the media don't even know how racist they are. Just two weeks ago, a lefty professor argued that black students shouldn't be flunked in school. There is a belief among the elites in America that black people just can't compete with other races so we have to help them. We have to lower college admission standards; we can't have voter photo ID laws because black people can't figure out how to get IDs. We must ban the butterfly ballot because it's too complicated for black people. We must raise the minimum wage because black people can't find a decent paying job on their own, etc. We call this the soft bigotry of low expectations and low expectations have as damaging an effect on people as blatant racists.

    The solution is to disregard race in all decision making and judge a person by the content of his character and his ability.
    Senator Rand Paul is alive because of modern medicine and because his attacker punches like a girl.
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  6. #16
    Senior Member BlackDog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post

    The solution is to disregard race in all decision making and judge a person by the content of his character and his ability.
    I would be the first to admit that the left sometimes goes overboard in its proposals of solutions to race problems. But the general intention is to foster integration as quickly as possible using any means possible.

    What if a person's ability depends not just on innate qualities, but can be negatively impacted by bad upbringing? How do you suggest we integrate the races in that case?
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  7. #17
    deplorable basketcase Tellenbach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackDog
    But the general intention is to foster integration as quickly as possible using any means possible.
    I don't see this as a priority at all. Let people live where and with whom they want to.

    What if a person's ability depends not just on innate qualities, but can be negatively impacted by bad upbringing? How do you suggest we integrate the races in that case?
    We know the forces that hurt a child's chances of succeeding and those negative influences should be addressed (school choice is one easy reform). The goal should be to give every child as great an opportunity to succeed as possible. Integration is pointless.
    Senator Rand Paul is alive because of modern medicine and because his attacker punches like a girl.

  8. #18
    Senior Member BlackDog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    I don't see this as a priority at all. Let people live where and with whom they want to.
    The Left so-called across at least the Western world has lost nearly every characteristic of a truly liberal cause, compromising its integrity at every turn. Almost the only thing they still stand for in America at least is a vague grasp of the fact that no country afflicted with major racial division where the minorities are large can be reformed in the interest of the people.

    Until racial division is eliminated or substantially reduced, there is no hope for progressivism. Division can be reduced proactively by moving past race with a class-based agenda, or in a society where the Right is firmly in control, it can be done much less efficiently by attempts to integrate the races.



    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    We know the forces that hurt a child's chances of succeeding and those negative influences should be addressed (school choice is one easy reform). The goal should be to give every child as great an opportunity to succeed as possible. Integration is pointless.
    I agree. But the Right as well as elements of the Left hope to stoke racial division. Part of this are the 'threat narratives' that teach minorities they can't succeed, and the white majority that it is targeted by 'violent black men'. Whatever element of truth there is to these narratives has been manufactured by them.

    We already get fed propaganda; our current situation has been created by propaganda! I'm merely advocating the reversal of this situation as well as the elimination of a serious weakness (division).

    How would integration not strengthen the country? If there were no more white or black or hispanic people, but if instead most people were of mixed ancestry, then effectively the issue would be dead. Same as problems among different groups of Europeans were resolved partly by integration and partly by the threat narratives claiming that the darker minorities were the 'real enemy'.
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  9. #19
    deplorable basketcase Tellenbach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackDog
    How would integration not strengthen the country?
    I think it's more important to integrate based on values rather than race. The racial divide is insignificant compared to the values divide. The black conservative has much more in common with a white conservative than a black liberal. Also, I think many people are more comfortable living with people who look similar to them. People living in Koreatown or Little Tokyo are happy.
    Senator Rand Paul is alive because of modern medicine and because his attacker punches like a girl.

  10. #20
    Senior Member BlackDog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    I think it's more important to integrate based on values rather than race. The racial divide is insignificant compared to the values divide. The black conservative has much more in common with a white conservative than a black liberal. Also, I think many people are more comfortable living with people who look similar to them. People living in Koreatown or Little Tokyo are happy.
    I agree with you that in the short run, this is true. I just happen to think that the longterm stability of populations is more important. Multiculturalism can last well for a long time, but when it blows up, like with what we see in Iraq today, it gets ugly. Better to unify the people instead, if it's achievable.
    Formerly Lion4!5

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