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  1. #71
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    It is a good song.

    Reminds me of Backstreet Boys
    If it reminds you of Backstreet Boys, then that could in part explain why you think "creativity" is disappearing. Backstreet Boys is homophonic and homorhythmic, not polyphonic and polyrhythmic. There's a depth of musical complexity and vocal strength/virtuosity, here - in spite of the repetitive chord progression - that leaves boy bands in the dust. If you think it's that similar ... I'm not sure what to say.

    Maybe it isn't lack of creativity, but that you're bored with music? It happens. I was bored with music for a few years a while back.

    My main observation on current musical trends is that since music broke free of the record company model, there's a lot more free-form stuff that's about satisfying particular tastes, as opposed to an organized effort of a few promoters to find the next new sound and get everyone to like/listen to it by force-feeding it to the public.
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  2. #72
    Sweet Ocean Cloud SD45T-2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LunaLuminosity View Post
    As a demisexual aromantic person, I'm painfully aware of how 99% of popular music is about either sex or romance, in some way or another. It bores me to tears.
    This is where Rush and Talking Heads come in handy.
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  3. #73
    Senior Member Opal's Avatar
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  4. #74
    Senior Member Opal's Avatar
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    I mean




  5. #75
    I could do things Hard's Avatar
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    I also offer this an amazing example. Aphex Twin is a god of electronic music, and he is able to compose pretty much anything. The swing is not only used as visual, but a very subtle and important sonic tool.

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  6. #76
    Senior Member Habba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kullervo View Post
    To satisfy me, music must have order (i.e. a defined formal structure), clear melodies, tonality and a balance between unity and variety. Contemporary Pop music fails to meet the last criterion, and Electronic music fails to meet the first three. I enjoy more sophisticated pop music, whereas electronic and jazz just make me feel sick.
    Fair enough, you have a clear pattern of what you find comfortable. I too hate jazz, but I'm still puzzled by my own sense of music. I can enjoy Eminem, Offspring, Hans Zimmer and Michael Nyman even on the same playlist.

    You are trying to move this conversation away from the music to how it is presented - this is the paradigm shift I was talking about. [/QUOTE]

    Music does not exist in a void. It always has a context. Funeral songs are sad because they remind of people we've lost. Love songs make us think about our love life, past and present. Exhilarating music wants us to have fun and dance. People like dancing, so they'll also like the music they danced to.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kullervo View Post
    Lana del Rey, like the great majority of "artists", would actually fail high school music I took this http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-4CIOeiVW6M...y+-+Ride+3.png song of hers, "Ride", and analysed it. The song moves from G to D minor in the key of C many times. This is a 5-2 movement, which is forbidden (unlike 2-5). Before you go ape shit understand that every harmonic system has rules, and in the tonal system 5 moves to 1 or 6 (there are exceptions, but 5-2 is not one of them).
    I have next to no knowledge of musical theory, but do you think that say Dubstep or Rap would pass these tests? Also, sometimes composers use disharmony to show harmony.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kullervo View Post
    If everybody took up your attitude we'd consider Taylor Swift the equal of Beethoven. Sure, we're all different. That doesn't mean that we're all equally talented.
    It's easy to put old composers on a stand, they had little competition. Nowadays we have millions of wannabe singers, songwriters and composers with wide range of instruments and instructions available to them. It takes much more talent to rise into such high positions that classical composers hold.
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  7. #77
    Senior Member Habba's Avatar
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    I think people confuse talent, popularity and creativity quite a lot. While it is true that restrictions breed creativity and abundance takes it away, we still have a lot more people working on a daily on music than we had 20, 40 or 60 years ago. Without services like youtube, indie bands had next to chance to gain worldwide popularity. Now all it takes is to upload a video.

    Now, is this more or less creative than the original?


    This piece you can't hear without thinking of the dance/video. Creative? It sure is popular, but wouldn't have flown 40 years ago.


    No one dares to question Queen's originality and creative talent. How about this piece, more or less creative than the original?
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  8. #78
    untitled Chanaynay's Avatar
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    Here's some in popular music that might fly:







    Dunno, I've still never been a good judge of creativity and originality since those factors never really mattered to me when listening to music. But I think these are pretty creative and stand out.
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  9. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Habba View Post
    Music does not exist in a void. It always has a context. Funeral songs are sad because they remind of people we've lost. Love songs make us think about our love life, past and present. Exhilarating music wants us to have fun and dance. People like dancing, so they'll also like the music they danced to.
    As much as the setting/context of a composition matters, technological advances - combined with cultural changes - have meant that the presentation of the music is now more heavily weighted than the music itself.

    Quote Originally Posted by Habba View Post
    I have next to no knowledge of musical theory, but do you think that say Dubstep or Rap would pass these tests? Also, sometimes composers use disharmony to show harmony.
    No, of course they wouldn't. But is that really the point?

    Quote Originally Posted by Habba View Post
    It's easy to put old composers on a stand, they had little competition. Nowadays we have millions of wannabe singers, songwriters and composers with wide range of instruments and instructions available to them. It takes much more talent to rise into such high positions that classical composers hold.
    On the contrary, composers have always had competition and used to be little if anything more than servants. The difference is that until quite recently, music was more important (within reason) than what the person looked like and how they acted. To summarize, we have gone from valuing artists to entertainers.

  10. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kullervo View Post
    I posted a few fragments a while ago, though my style has changed since then.

    To satisfy me, music must have order (i.e. a defined formal structure), clear melodies, tonality and a balance between unity and variety. Contemporary Pop music fails to meet the last criterion, and Electronic music fails to meet the first three. I enjoy more sophisticated pop music, whereas electronic and jazz just make me feel sick.



    You are trying to move this conversation away from the music to how it is presented - this is the paradigm shift I was talking about. Lana del Rey, like the great majority of "artists", would actually fail high school music I took this http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-4CIOeiVW6M...y+-+Ride+3.png song of hers, "Ride", and analysed it. The song moves from G to D minor in the key of C many times. This is a 5-2 movement, which is forbidden (unlike 2-5).

    Before you go ape shit understand that every harmonic system has rules, and in the tonal system 5 moves to 1 or 6 (there are exceptions, but 5-2 is not one of them).



    If everybody took up your attitude we'd consider Taylor Swift the equal of Beethoven. Sure, we're all different. That doesn't mean that we're all equally talented.
    Why would you go to an extreme like Taylor Swift and not more complex artists? You seem to be unaware of artists like Tori Amos, or the greater complexity of song writing that went into a lot of guitar rock like Led Zeppelin, Jackson Browne, or the individual single "Green Grass and High Tides Forever. "

    I majored in literature, so I know all about the difference between enjoying something like a paperback mystery in a series with a beloved detective (similar perhaps to enjoying pop music) and reading and dissection of Wuthering Heights. It was from such a distinction I have argued that Ayn Rand not only didn't write philosophy, she didn't write literature. Literature has to have a certain complexity in storytelling (such as Alexander Pushkin and his Onegin) but also make us think upon extremely broad and multiple human themes (like Tolstoy or the Bronte sisters). But keep in mind some classical artists were dismissed as popular, passionate trash to excite younger people, and that Wuthering Heights, now considered by some academics as superior to Jane Eyre, was in its time called immoral, violent and lewd nonsense, basically.

    I get the complexity argument, but frankly I find always reading dark heavy literature exhausting, and detective novels more restful.

    Art speaks of the human experience and transmits culture, and yes, popular music most certainly does that.

    P.S. I doubt very seriously Lana del Rey, or rather, Elizabeth Grant, failed high school music. She attended a private boarding school and studied Metaphysics in college, she's not an idiot, and she has had additional vocal training and sounds pretty much the same live as in studio.

    I think music is too much about theory and not enough about practice for you. A person can have an ear for music without embracing a lot of theory. I should know, I studied music between about third grade and throughout high school, and took voice in college, and I despise theory. My BFF from high school plays piano by ear.

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