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  1. #41
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grey_beard View Post
    What I have noticed is that in some undefined period (say late 90's, maybe, I guess Britney Spears was the harbinger of this, although some boy bands might count as well)? Music got replaced by garbage (aside from the disco of the 70s, but that was never music anyway.):
    in particular, instead of talent, one had groups of 1-5 people doing synchronized dancing on stage to catchy hooks: but neither the music, nor the lyrics, had substance: they did not "stick to your ribs" as it were.
    I actually liked some of Britney Spears music but yes I think that is correct.

    Quote Originally Posted by grey_beard View Post
    In a related aside, movies seem to have degenerated to "the last 10-15 minutes of a movie is the hero playing cat-and-mouse with the villain in a dark, secluded place with line-of-sight obscured by fog and shadow" or "look at my CGI" or "look at the canned rendering package version of cartoon faces" which, though superficially different, all show a particular emotion with the *same* movement of eyebrows and cheeks: individuality expressed as a unique combination of a limited set of component options, rather than any nuance or individuality *within* an option.
    It is somewhat true. I still find some movies that I like though.

    Quote Originally Posted by grey_beard View Post

    (Wave After Wave)

    So this is freaking awesome. I love that. It pretty much sounds like the Coors to me (who I used to like a lot).

    Quote Originally Posted by grey_beard View Post

    or from their album Lex Rex:

    Thank you for these posts. I hadn't heard of these guys either. Like that a lot. It pretty much sounds like a blend between early Yes and Dream Theatre though, so not hugely innovative.

    It's my problem. I can occasionally find someone that I really like, such as these two bands but it is nothing like the first time I heard Tori Amos where I was like "Wow. That is amazing and different."

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  2. #42
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Music pulls on something we can't always quite explain. Something that speaks directly, often bypassing all the fluff in between.

    As long as it keeps doing that it's creativity will be in what it evokes as opposed to how it produces evocation. Although new methods can be a plus too.

    Meh I wanted that to sound sincere, I guess I can't do that too well, but you get the gist.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

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    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
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  3. #43
    Member Surr's Avatar
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    I do hear this a lot, that the music nowadays is crap and all that and that it was so much more creative back in the days but I'm a bit skeptical about that. I think what this is about is

    a) nostalgia. I think the things I watched in my childhood were naturally better than the "junk kids watch these days" even though objectively thinking the cartoons nowadays are better made. Time makes everything seem sweeter and naturally you can't associate the music nowadays with good (or bad) things from your past and feeling wary of new music can also prevent you from getting emotionally attached to the gems of the music of our generation

    b) music business has more money in it, hence naturally more crap gets produced as well and radio and Internet get even those shitty songs and artists more visibility. Some even try to sell with how crappy they are (Friday and others)

    c) flops tend to be forgotten. I have no doubt they produced f-loads of crap back in the 80s and before that as well, it's just been decades since then so naturally, they're not in fresh memory anymore.

    Or something *shrug*, I just think that the music industry nowadays is just as creative as it was back in the days and people come up with new ideas all the time.

  4. #44
    Senior Member RedAmazoneFriendZone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dannik View Post
    It is easy to perceive nostalgia as greater than reality.....

    also, our perception of the world is clouded, limited and broken by our experiences and our judgements.
    I think it is up to younger generations to see what we cannot
    ALL THAT WE SEE OR SEEM TO BE IS BUT A DREAM WITHIN A DREAM
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  5. #45
    Senior Member pinkgraffiti's Avatar
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    It's not that creativity in music is dead. Music is a gigantic universe, where things are happening all the time and people are influencing each other. It's likely that your perception in music is dead. So it's up to you to reach out to that incredible diversity that still exists and which I find everyday when I'm searching for music. Maybe your question was actually that POP music is dead. If so, you mean that the MUSIC INDUSTRY has homogenized music to make it as profitable as possible. And therefore it is catchy but not original. Well, but this is not a surprise!?
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  6. #46
    Sweet Ocean Cloud SD45T-2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Surr View Post
    c) flops tend to be forgotten. I have no doubt they produced f-loads of crap back in the 80s and before that as well, it's just been decades since then so naturally, they're not in fresh memory anymore.
    Dave Barry (ENFP?) has written about this at length. He's old enough to remember lots of horrible music from the '60s and '70s, including some hugely popular stuff that did not age well and is now largely forgotten.

    IIRC, Dave Barry said that whenever he heard Bobby Goldsboro he wanted to drill a hole in him to let the sap run out.
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  7. #47
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    I think I started a thread on this around a month ago...

    It is pretty obvious to an objective listener that music is becoming more homogenous. The subject matter of the lyrics, especially, doesn't vary much compared to a generation ago, especially within genres. There's a whole world out there to explore, and I don't feel very inspired hearing about your latest breakup or crush.

    There was a window of time where you could actually drop out of high school and make your way if you had genuine musical talents. Can anybody imagine that now? The good old days are long gone. To be successful you really need to sign with a label and that means they have some control over what you write. Talking from the more classical perspective, there are a number of self-enforced rules about what our music can sound like to the stamp of approval. For example, it can't sound like Wagner and has to sound 20th century, and it can't be too good, either.

    Aspiring pop and rock musicians face these kinds of problems too, as well as additional ones such as discrimination based on their sex appeal. There is a formula that the industry keeps to and if you don't meet it, good luck. There's not much that they're prepared to compromise on. As music is moving from art to entertainment, a performer's artistic talent has become unimportant.

    To make my points about the music itself, I'm going to share a few songs with you. To musical people, I want you to look up the scores and lyrics of each song. Play each out for a minute; my points should become clear. Now. Some music!

    (sorry about this guys)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfWlot6h_JM
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CevxZvSJLk8

    Now compare those two to these two.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfR_HWMzgyc
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPo6v0KhBdw

  8. #48
    I could do things Hard's Avatar
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    No it is not. iamamiwhoami is strong evidence against that as well.
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  9. #49
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    No. Early unreleased Lana del Rey and Karen Drescher Anderson as Fever Rey. You know the expression "people who are bored are boring"? Same with people who complain about music. My dad was a musician, I have been a music fanatic since I was six, and while I poo poo certain epochs or artists, I am largely disgusted more with people who don't know who MIA and the Xx and London Grammar are, tbph. It's like you sat down in the sand and wanted to cry about the Cure and Nirvana, I have about as much sympathy for you as attractive people who can't get laid because their standard is unrealistic.
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  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by grey_beard View Post
    What I have noticed is that in some undefined period (say late 90's, maybe, I guess Britney Spears was the harbinger of this, although some boy bands might count as well)? Music got replaced by garbage (aside from the disco of the 70s, but that was never music anyway.):
    in particular, instead of talent, one had groups of 1-5 people doing synchronized dancing on stage to catchy hooks: but neither the music, nor the lyrics, had substance: they did not "stick to your ribs" as it were.

    In a related aside, movies seem to have degenerated to "the last 10-15 minutes of a movie is the hero playing cat-and-mouse with the villain in a dark, secluded place with line-of-sight obscured by fog and shadow" or "look at my CGI" or "look at the canned rendering package version of cartoon faces" which, though superficially different, all show a particular emotion with the *same* movement of eyebrows and cheeks: individuality expressed as a unique combination of a limited set of component options, rather than any nuance or individuality *within* an option.

    For music, I have found the band Iona (fusion/Celtic) to be different from the pablum :

    (Everything Changes)


    (Wave After Wave)


    or Glass Hammer, some of their stuff based on Lord of the Rings:

    Nimrodel:


    Sweet Goldberry:


    or from their album Lex Rex:







    And to my mind, there is a certain futile ennui in the attempt to be the next TawdryThrashbody.
    What you are talking about started in the sixties and seventies, but it becomes harder to find better music after the mid eighties because of Reaganized corporate radio. But now, of course, we have the internet, and I actually think Britney Spears like Fergie was actually a talent in the early Disney structure. I actually like Selena Gomez from later incarnation, think she's probably STJ, also ok with some of Mileys stuff. Courtney Love would actually be willing to do a collaborative effort with her.

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