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  1. #91
    The Typing Tabby grey_beard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    Enjoy your pedantic party. Most people who are Si wired to the rightness of their chosen academic field make the same argument. There's a certain skill of complexity related to orchestra and ballet, but it doesn't take the soul or beauty of jazz or modern dance. You saying what you are saying is virtually identical to saying modern day American people are superior to Cherokee tribes, and that's frankly open to debate, son.
    This is merely for the sake of the musical pun, since creativity in music *is* kinda sorta the stated topic of the thread:



    I submit that this song beats the living sh*t out of Britney Spears, Backstreet Boys, One Direction, etc...
    "Love never needs time. But friendship always needs time. More and more and more time, up to long past midnight." -- The Crime of Captain Gahagan

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  2. #92
    The Green Jolly Robin H.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    It's one of the reasons I brought up Onegin specifically, because although the original is mostly Russian, it contains French and English in order to make a comment about aristocratic ideas in Europe at the time, and those were two of the first languages it was translated into in the 20th century, as well as German.

    Nabokov continued to use this trick, a Russian man writing an English novel, Lolita, which contains blurbs of pretentious French for both cultural and comedic effect.

    Racism has a nasty history that also made some parts of Europe more "important" than others, not to mention cultures on other continents.

    Originally "country" music had fairly complex though non academic roots in Scots Irish traditional music, a fairly hated group in the United States at one time.

    There's definitely a racist undertone that should go without saying when measuring jazz and the original rock and roll, against African Americans, it was called negro music.
    yes. by establishing a standard in culture we are evaluating and judging it as good or bad. culture is best left freed and unfettered to open to dialogue to serve humanity - then we have the greatest level of catharsis available for the greatest amount of people and also by nature of competition the greatest quality. this is quite different than developing safety standards for a factory plant but believe it or not, safety standards and seemingly straight forward policies are usually also leveraged unfairly to keep smaller competitors from entering markets by providing greater barriers of entry.
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    Olemn slammed his hammer and from the sparks on the metal of his anvil came the spheres of the heavens.

    Sayrah blew life into the spheres and they moved. From her wheel she weaved the names of people in to mystery.
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  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by grey_beard View Post
    This is merely for the sake of the musical pun, since creativity in music *is* kinda sorta the stated topic of the thread:



    I submit that this song beats the living sh*t out of Britney Spears, Backstreet Boys, One Direction, etc...
    In terms of complexity, probably, just like most Alabama, Allison Kraus or Johnny Cash beats the crap out of a lot of the mainstream country played on the radio of "not your grandpa's country" or some nonsense, and it kind of annoys me, because country music was NOT originally about willful ignorance, it was the best stuff produced by a group of Scots Irish working class people and their Appalachian descendents. It's become a parody of itself, and we might be able to argue the same about a lot of corporate pop compared to Elvis or Chuck Barry and The Shirelles, however bubble gum existed in the fifties and sixties, and for every Folsom Prison Blues there was Cotton Eye Joe (originally from the 19th century, always was absurdly simple, a dance hall tune, meant for dancing).

    I mean listen to Suite Judy Blue Eyes by Crosby Stills and Nash. ...the problem is, I think, that people have gone to the opposite extreme, almost like a teenager rebelling against rigidity, and that's what excessive rigidity eventually will produce: a willful minimal standard, an affectation taken on by the middle class to be more like the lower classes (for instance, white boys from suburbs trying to act like gang members) ...and I am not saying I don't find it problematic. HOWEVER, in order to fix the problem, it is more pragmatic to be open minded, because a return to the sort of rigidity SM prescribes will just lead to senseless rebellion. I mean it's also what's wrong with our political parties, being leftist has almost descended into worship of Muslims and hating Christians, which is counterproductive, stupid and dangerous. ...but it's the answer to extreme Christian Right rigidity. It's a nightmare.

    EDIT: Now that I think about it, what's bothering me is misappropriation of culture I think. As a person whose family is a mix of native American and German and the original crop of Scots Irish in the 1700s who got "stuck" in the West Virginia mountains, I think I'm actually insulted and pissed off that some yuppies think it's cute to wear cowboy hats and buy guns, and that many of my own are feeding into it out of their own damn ignorance. I've noticed my ISFP cousin is a lot like me, only listening to stuff like Nitty Gritty Dirt Band, but my cousin who is likely ESFJ had totally taken on new country as the new normal, you'd think it would be the opposite, but I think SFJs may actually "fit in" better, in a way. It's why I love Duck Dynasty but kind of look askance at a lot of stuff that to me appears to MOCK the South. Kind of like how some mainstream hip hop culture degrades African Americans from poor urban areas, it's become a mockery, a trend, in some ways it has quickly lost a lot of the "soul" it had in the 90s.

  4. #94
    The Typing Tabby grey_beard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    Backstreet Boys is homophonic and homorhythmic, not polyphonic and polyrhythmic.
    Homo *what*?



    Weird Al ftw!
    "Love never needs time. But friendship always needs time. More and more and more time, up to long past midnight." -- The Crime of Captain Gahagan

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  5. #95
    Member Belle of Kilronan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    I have noticed a real decline in music over the last 20 years. There isn't a whole lot that's new. To elaborate a little, think about popular music in the 40s - the big band music was good. It's still good when you listen to it now. Then came the 50s and rock and roll was born. Elvis Presley, Chuck Berry, Buddy Holly. It was different. You hadn't heard stuff like that before. Then came the 60s, the Beatles and music again was reborn in a huge way. Then in the 70s, there was a lot of unique and new stuff. Boston, Kansas, ELO, Pink Floyd. You hadn't heard things like this. It was so different. In the 80s and birth of MTV there was again a lot of new creative stuff. Missing Persons, Depeche Mode, Duran Duran, Madonna, Queen (really started in the 70s), U2, Tears for Fears. There was a new and unique style. Then came the 90s and there was some good music, like the Smashing Pumpkins, No Doubt, Soundgarden and Stone Temple Pilots. They were good but not hugely differentiated. It was something of a blend between stuff from the 70s and 80s almost. It was during the 90s that I started to lose interest because there was nothing really truly new. There was nothing really that innovative. This continued into the 2000s and till now.

    It is like the innovation died. Don't get me wrong. There is good music but nothing truly new or differentiated. If you took most music from 10 years ago and played it on the radio today, it wouldn't sound out of place. I like Lady Gaga for example as well as the next person but she seems like a clone of Madonna.

    What happened? Am I missing it? Who is breaking new ground? Post videos if you have them.
    The question is where are you looking? I don't know about anything breaking new grounds in music, but there are certainly artists out there that are creating new sounds with different textural landscapes, incorporating fresh perspectives with real originality. I still typically listen to older music. I think that the most innovative form of music to come out of the tail end of the 20th century are industrial, no wave/noise rock, and shoegaze music styles. These three styles at least achieved originality and has not been co-opted by mass-media. For my generation, interest in underground music has seen some renewal. Albums that were out of print due to lack of commercial success or critical attention have experienced a resurgence due to online-based music publications and various file-sharing blogs. An artist like Ariel Pink (Ariel Rosenberg) boasts a vast catalog of indie/DIY records, 4-tracks and EPs that hark back to 1970s am pop and 1990s lo-Fi production value. It seems familiar but it's some really unique stuff. Old indie labels like SubPop and 4AD records are experiencing a renaissance of sorts. Some contemporary artists that I like and consider to be original are St. Vincent, Crystal Castles, Soap&Skin, and Shabazz Palaces, the latter being a rap group. There are some real great strides being made in underground rap to diversify the genre's sound template. The use of sampling is more playful and intelligent than what you would expect to see in traditional hip-hop, resulting in a more sonically challenging listening experience. Some experimental hip-hop includes elements of electronic, industrial, free jazz, even hardcore and metal (Death Grips).

  6. #96
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    It is a good song.

    Reminds me of Backstreet Boys
    Check THIS out:

    Pentatonix Tears Up the Charts - WSJ

    THIS is what is happening with modern music.
    An argument is two people sharing their ignorance.

    A discussion is two people sharing their understanding, even when they disagree.

  7. #97
    Member melomania's Avatar
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    Default It only seems that way because of the increase in the amount of music out there now.

    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    I have noticed a real decline in music over the last 20 years. There isn't a whole lot that's new. To elaborate a little, think about popular music in the 40s - the big band music was good. It's still good when you listen to it now. Then came the 50s and rock and roll was born. Elvis Presley, Chuck Berry, Buddy Holly. It was different. You hadn't heard stuff like that before. Then came the 60s, the Beatles and music again was reborn in a huge way. Then in the 70s, there was a lot of unique and new stuff. Boston, Kansas, ELO, Pink Floyd. You hadn't heard things like this. It was so different. In the 80s and birth of MTV there was again a lot of new creative stuff. Missing Persons, Depeche Mode, Duran Duran, Madonna, Queen (really started in the 70s), U2, Tears for Fears. There was a new and unique style. Then came the 90s and there was some good music, like the Smashing Pumpkins, No Doubt, Soundgarden and Stone Temple Pilots. They were good but not hugely differentiated. It was something of a blend between stuff from the 70s and 80s almost. It was during the 90s that I started to lose interest because there was nothing really truly new. There was nothing really that innovative. This continued into the 2000s and till now.

    It is like the innovation died. Don't get me wrong. There is good music but nothing truly new or differentiated. If you took most music from 10 years ago and played it on the radio today, it wouldn't sound out of place. I like Lady Gaga for example as well as the next person but she seems like a clone of Madonna.

    What happened? Am I missing it? Who is breaking new ground? Post videos if you have them.
    I think that it is very easy to feel like there is a decline in the quality of contemporary music because of what we see in popular media and because there is so much crap to wade through to find those hidden gems which showcase raw talent. I think this is very similar to what happened in the 1960s. If you dive into youtube and search for 60s garage rock, there is so much shitty music out there, it's insane! This is because of how cheap it became to record music at home and also because of the drop in price of the electric guitar. The same thing is happening today with the advent of Soundcloud, Bandcamp, Beatport, etc.

    Talent is what stands the test of time, and there is tons of it in the music scene today!

    Album Leaf - Seal Beach EP - YouTube

    The Sheepdogs - Learn & Burn - YouTube

    St. Paul and the Broken Bones - Half the City full album - YouTube

    Kung Fu (Full Show) @ The Funky Biscuit 04-23-2014 - YouTube

  8. #98
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Belle of Kilronan View Post
    The question is where are you looking?
    The radio. I listen to music in the car.

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  9. #99
    Senior Member swordpath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    The radio. I listen to music in the car.


    Get an auxiliary cable for an mp3 player. Use the net to find and acquire good music.
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  10. #100
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swordpath View Post


    Get an auxiliary cable for an mp3 player. Use the net to find and acquire good music.
    I have that already. I have thousands of albums loaded on it.

    Maybe this is the real problem though. I expect to hear something good on the radio. That used to be my entry point. I would then look up music from the artist and buy a bunch of stuff. Since I hear little good new stuff on the radio, I don't buy anything anymore.

    The question then is what is the most efficient way of finding good stuff on the net? How do you wade through all the crap? Are there good rankings? Lists or something? Something indexed by type of music? Sorry if this is a dumb question but I have no idea.

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