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  1. #141

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    I'm not sure I could be friends with someone who was aggressively promoting homosexuality, I've tried in the past but the fact I dont and cant share their passion for it is usually an obstacle, there's a lot of things which people dont think you should be neutral about or have no opinion on or strong feelings about.

    I tend to find it pretty ironic because the same people would see themselves as nothing like evangelical religious sorts but I think they've got very similar personality traits and character structures.
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  2. #142
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    ^"Could a racist homophobe be friends with someone who isn't?"
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  3. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I'm not sure I could be friends with someone who was aggressively promoting homosexuality, I've tried in the past but the fact I dont and cant share their passion for it is usually an obstacle, there's a lot of things which people dont think you should be neutral about or have no opinion on or strong feelings about.

    I tend to find it pretty ironic because the same people would see themselves as nothing like evangelical religious sorts but I think they've got very similar personality traits and character structures.
    Is that an 'of course' to the actual thread question?
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  4. #144
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    Threads like this are nauseatingly self-righteous. Congratulations for patting each other on the back over how superficially 'tolerant' you are.

    I have noticed that this tolerance is quickly replaced by fear and anger when your core beliefs are challenged. @Lark observes rightly that leftists are little different to religious evangelicals. I would vouch that the former are worse, because they somehow manage to believe that collective self-hatred makes them tolerant and enlightened.

  5. #145
    The Dark Lord The Wailing Specter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BadOctopus View Post
    Yikes, @Magic Qwan. I have a few JW relatives, and have spent quite a lot of time with them, as well as their friends, but I've never known any JW to be that volatile about homosexuality. According to what my relatives have told me, they regard the actual practice as a sin, but they don't hate the people who practice it. Basically, the whole "Hate the sin, not the sinner" thing. One of my brothers is gay, and at no time have my JW relatives been cruel or hateful to him. Then again, I guess there are extremists in every religion.

    Anyway, I don't think I could be friends with a racist or a homophobe, because both ways of thinking are illogical. It makes no sense to hate someone based on something they can't control, like skin color, or who they're attracted to. And even if your prejudices are a product of how you were raised, that's still no excuse. It's still irrational, and I can't muster any respect for someone who refuses to think for themselves.
    Exactly. I never caught my mother's racism, but even I eventually outgrew my family's religion-based homophobia, and I was once the most volitile one in my family because I wanted to "save" gay people from their "evil" lifestyle, and did not want them to die horribly in the coming "end times." Now, am am an advocat for all those whom society oppresses, seeking to work within the system to end the tyranny of oppressors.
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  6. #146
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    This is a silly question. It's not really seeking out any information. Perhaps a more useful one would be whether there is basis for a friendship with someone who shares very different values than your own, particularly when their values conflict with how you believe others should be treated.

  7. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Qwan View Post
    Exactly. I never caught my mother's racism, but even I eventually outgrew my family's religion-based homophobia, and I was once the most volitile one in my family because I wanted to "save" gay people from their "evil" lifestyle, and did not want them to die horribly in the coming "end times." Now, am am an advocat for all those whom society oppresses, seeking to work within the system to end the tyranny of oppressors.
    It seems that under the right circumstances we are all capable of oppression because we have found power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely. So we have learnt to limit power through liberal democracy.

    We have seen how three totalitarian ideologies have led to absolute power and absolute corruption, namely, National Socialism, Communism, and Islam.

    Everyday in our newspapers we read about totalitarian Islam taking power in what was Iraq and Syria, we read about absolute power being absolutely corrupt.

    We know the problem and we know the solution. And we remember the words of John F. Kennedy at his Inauguration, Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe, in order to assure the survival and the success of liberal democracy.
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  8. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    It seems that under the right circumstances we are all capable of oppression because we have found power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely. So we have learnt to limit power through liberal democracy.

    We have seen how three totalitarian ideologies have led to absolute power and absolute corruption, namely, National Socialism, Communism, and Islam.
    What about absolutism itself, Fascism and the Imperial system? The reason nobody has mentioned them so far is simply because they haven't acquired the negative connotations of Communism, Islam and especially NS. This is a direct consequence of WWII and the power structures that have been in place ever since.

    You are also ignoring the fact that a genuinely republican society (with the exception of Japan) does not exist outside countries with an ethnic European majority. I therefore believe that politics and culture are intertwined, and that a democracy-for-all approach cannot heal the world's political strife. We are not all the same, and unfortunately it seems to take a while before this sinks in.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    Everyday in our newspapers we read about totalitarian Islam taking power in what was Iraq and Syria, we read about absolute power being absolutely corrupt.

    We know the problem and we know the solution. And we remember the words of John F. Kennedy at his Inauguration, Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe, in order to assure the survival and the success of liberal democracy.
    No political system is perfect. I am dismayed to see so many people treat democracy as if it is the perfect way to govern. Let the media pump out article after article about the dangers of Islam and foreign terrorists. The truth is that you are exponentionally more likely to be murdered by a Muslim who already lives in Australia.

  9. #149

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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Qwan View Post
    Exactly. I never caught my mother's racism, but even I eventually outgrew my family's religion-based homophobia, and I was once the most volitile one in my family because I wanted to "save" gay people from their "evil" lifestyle, and did not want them to die horribly in the coming "end times." Now, am am an advocat for all those whom society oppresses, seeking to work within the system to end the tyranny of oppressors.
    What constitutes oppression to you?

    In the UK people have been excluded from employment and business ownership because they have been honest about not validating homosexual sexual orientation.

    In the UK homosexuals are something like less than two percent of the population, its a guess but those willing to risk their employment or business by being honest with them is probably a small percentage of the population too, money values and apathy probably trumph most things, most of the time. So, er, what horse do you back there?

    Its never a good idea, if you're sincere about correcting the legacies of historic oppressions or persecutions, and not simply being 'in earnest', that dont immediately set up new ones.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Qwan View Post
    Exactly. I never caught my mother's racism, but even I eventually outgrew my family's religion-based homophobia, and I was once the most volitile one in my family because I wanted to "save" gay people from their "evil" lifestyle, and did not want them to die horribly in the coming "end times." Now, am am an advocat for all those whom society oppresses, seeking to work within the system to end the tyranny of oppressors.
    What constitutes oppression to you?

    In the UK people have been excluded from employment and business ownership because they have been honest about not validating homosexual sexual orientation.

    In the UK homosexuals are something like less than two percent of the population, its a guess but those willing to risk their employment or business by being honest with them is probably a small percentage of the population too, money values and apathy probably trumph most things, most of the time. So, er, what horse do you back there?

    Its never a good idea, if you're sincere about correcting the legacies of historic oppressions or persecutions, and not simply being 'in earnest', that dont immediately set up new ones.

  10. #150
    The Dark Lord The Wailing Specter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    What constitutes oppression to you?

    In the UK people have been excluded from employment and business ownership because they have been honest about not validating homosexual sexual orientation.

    In the UK homosexuals are something like less than two percent of the population, its a guess but those willing to risk their employment or business by being honest with them is probably a small percentage of the population too, money values and apathy probably trumph most things, most of the time. So, er, what horse do you back there?

    Its never a good idea, if you're sincere about correcting the legacies of historic oppressions or persecutions, and not simply being 'in earnest', that dont immediately set up new ones.

    - - - Updated - - -



    What constitutes oppression to you?

    In the UK people have been excluded from employment and business ownership because they have been honest about not validating homosexual sexual orientation.

    In the UK homosexuals are something like less than two percent of the population, its a guess but those willing to risk their employment or business by being honest with them is probably a small percentage of the population too, money values and apathy probably trumph most things, most of the time. So, er, what horse do you back there?

    Its never a good idea, if you're sincere about correcting the legacies of historic oppressions or persecutions, and not simply being 'in earnest', that dont immediately set up new ones.
    I'll stew over your question tonight, as I do not have an answer to the whole question tonight. I will say, however, that oppression constitutes treating people unfairly and/or differently for reasons either partly or wholly beyond their control without their consent.

    What is unfair? I will think about it, as well.
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    I say this as a reminder to myself, but this goes for everyone:

    You can achieve anything you set your mind to, and you are limited only by how dedicated you are to succeed!

    -Magic Qwan

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