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  1. #121
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    ^This is very true. IMO there's a difference between simply being ignorant or having a learned prejudice that goes unexamined, and willful bigotry/hatred. My family is full of the former- over the years I've argued with them and tried to convince them otherwise, and it's been very frustrating at times, but they really do seem to have come a long way. My sister married a man from India, which probably would have been a huge scandal twenty years ago, but five years ago he was welcomed into the family warmly. If I had dated a black man I might have been disowned; that's not the case for my little sister who is 17 years younger than me. My mom is still a little weird about "the gays" but we're working on her.

  2. #122
    metamorphosing Flâneuse's Avatar
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    I don't hate racists and homophobes, especially if they seem ignorant/simply repeating what they've been taught (rather than being genuinely hateful), but I tend to dislike them and wouldn't want to be friends with one. If someone isn't intellectually independent and wise enough to see that you can't judge someone's character by their sexual orientation or race, then I don't consider them worth my time, much less my friendship.
    Likes BadOctopus liked this post

  3. #123
    The Dark Lord The Wailing Specter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    ^This is very true. IMO there's a difference between simply being ignorant or having a learned prejudice that goes unexamined, and willful bigotry/hatred. My family is full of the former- over the years I've argued with them and tried to convince them otherwise, and it's been very frustrating at times, but they really do seem to have come a long way. My sister married a man from India, which probably would have been a huge scandal twenty years ago, but five years ago he was welcomed into the family warmly. If I had dated a black man I might have been disowned; that's not the case for my little sister who is 17 years younger than me. My mom is still a little weird about "the gays" but we're working on her.
    My mother screams at gay people and is so rabidly hateful and fearful she can barely function around them. She can be polite on the surface to non-whites, but as soon as she is out of earshot, she rants about how "untrustworthy" they are and how "filthy and impure" they can be. When we walked past this white and black couple holding hands, she whispered in my ear "Now, isn't that disgusting?" Also, while I admit there is a correlation between minority status and crime, I do not believe it is a causative relationship. I believe because of the stigmata associated with being a minority (which my mother passionately points out) makes them less likely to gain legitimate employment and thus more likely to turn to crime. End the stigma, and the correlation between race and crime will end as well...at least according to my hypothesis.

    I'm proud I fight to educate people we are equals and each carry inherent worth as human beings, but I wish I could reach my mother, somehow. I personally never had a problem with mixed marriages or people of other races and ethnicities, and neither has my mother's mother (my mother's father was more racist than my mother). The rabid homophobia is my whole family, just about, though. I have no idea how I can reach them on that though.
    Enneagram: 6w7 (phobic) > 2w1 > 9w1
    Alignment: Chaotic Neutral
    Holland Code: AIS
    Date of Birth: March 15, 1996
    Gender: Male
    Political Stance: Libertarian Liberal (Arizona School/Strong BHL)
    ATHEIST UNITARIAN UNIVERSALIST HUMANIST
    and
    SCIENCE ENTHUSIAST


    I say this as a reminder to myself, but this goes for everyone:

    You can achieve anything you set your mind to, and you are limited only by how dedicated you are to succeed!

    -Magic Qwan

  4. #124
    Post Human Post Qlip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Qwan View Post
    My mother screams at gay people and is so rabidly hateful and fearful she can barely function around them. She can be polite on the surface to non-whites, but as soon as she is out of earshot, she rants about how "untrustworthy" they are and how "filthy and impure" they can be. When we walked past this white and black couple holding hands, she whispered in my ear "Now, isn't that disgusting?" Also, while I admit there is a correlation between minority status and crime, I do not believe it is a causative relationship. I believe because of the stigmata associated with being a minority (which my mother passionately points out) makes them less likely to gain legitimate employment and thus more likely to turn to crime. End the stigma, and the correlation between race and crime will end as well...at least according to my hypothesis.

    I'm proud I fight to educate people we are equals and each carry inherent worth as human beings, but I wish I could reach my mother, somehow. I personally never had a problem with mixed marriages or people of other races and ethnicities, and neither has my mother's mother (my mother's father was more racist than my mother). The rabid homophobia is my whole family, just about, though. I have no idea how I can reach them on that though.
    That really is terrible, and very strange considering she ascribes to a religion that is really backwards but believes that all races are equal. How does her religious beliefs support this?

  5. #125
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    my best friend's older brother came out gay to his parents his parents refused to speak to his older brother for years because of it, traumatized my friend and my friend insisted he was straight but kept doing sexual things with other guys (especially after drinking). has finally came out as gay and is going on dates with guys, but that's an example of how homophobia can fuck up a person, because he didn't want to also be disowned by his parents. so he tried to convince himself and others he was straight.

    and his older brother was and still is a successful firefighter in san francisco
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  6. #126
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Qwan View Post
    My mother screams at gay people and is so rabidly hateful and fearful she can barely function around them. She can be polite on the surface to non-whites, but as soon as she is out of earshot, she rants about how "untrustworthy" they are and how "filthy and impure" they can be. When we walked past this white and black couple holding hands, she whispered in my ear "Now, isn't that disgusting?" Also, while I admit there is a correlation between minority status and crime, I do not believe it is a causative relationship. I believe because of the stigmata associated with being a minority (which my mother passionately points out) makes them less likely to gain legitimate employment and thus more likely to turn to crime. End the stigma, and the correlation between race and crime will end as well...at least according to my hypothesis.

    I'm proud I fight to educate people we are equals and each carry inherent worth as human beings, but I wish I could reach my mother, somehow. I personally never had a problem with mixed marriages or people of other races and ethnicities, and neither has my mother's mother (my mother's father was more racist than my mother). The rabid homophobia is my whole family, just about, though. I have no idea how I can reach them on that though.
    How does she respond to reasonable arguments and facts? Screams and hands over her ears?

  7. #127
    The Dark Lord The Wailing Specter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qlip View Post
    That really is terrible, and very strange considering she ascribes to a religion that is really backwards but believes that all races are equal. How does her religious beliefs support this?
    Beats me. My mother's mother is also JW, and she has none of these feelings toward other races. When I asked my mother's mother about why my mother hates the blacks so much, she can only think of my mother's father, who did not like blacks. My grandfather was an elder, so she must have thought that since he was a racist in private, she could be, too. Since JW promotes equality of the races, she keeps it more private than her homophobia, which she wears on her sleeve. She bends the rules when it suits her, which is one of the reasons she got disfellowshipped a few years ago for a few years. During that time, there was a role reversal where I was really strict and she was more lax, but I deprogramed right before she got back in by groveling.
    Enneagram: 6w7 (phobic) > 2w1 > 9w1
    Alignment: Chaotic Neutral
    Holland Code: AIS
    Date of Birth: March 15, 1996
    Gender: Male
    Political Stance: Libertarian Liberal (Arizona School/Strong BHL)
    ATHEIST UNITARIAN UNIVERSALIST HUMANIST
    and
    SCIENCE ENTHUSIAST


    I say this as a reminder to myself, but this goes for everyone:

    You can achieve anything you set your mind to, and you are limited only by how dedicated you are to succeed!

    -Magic Qwan

  8. #128
    The Dark Lord The Wailing Specter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    How does she respond to reasonable arguments and facts? Screams and hands over her ears?
    She gets really, really angry.
    She is ESTJ 1w2.
    Enneagram: 6w7 (phobic) > 2w1 > 9w1
    Alignment: Chaotic Neutral
    Holland Code: AIS
    Date of Birth: March 15, 1996
    Gender: Male
    Political Stance: Libertarian Liberal (Arizona School/Strong BHL)
    ATHEIST UNITARIAN UNIVERSALIST HUMANIST
    and
    SCIENCE ENTHUSIAST


    I say this as a reminder to myself, but this goes for everyone:

    You can achieve anything you set your mind to, and you are limited only by how dedicated you are to succeed!

    -Magic Qwan

  9. #129
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Qwan View Post
    She gets really, really angry.
    She is ESTJ 1w2.
    Can you give an impression of the conversation that would ensue?

  10. #130
    The Dark Lord The Wailing Specter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    Can you give an impression of the conversation that would ensue?
    I would get a bunch of bible verses and old watchtower quotes thrown at me (she is Jehovah's Witness), and she would tell me how my generation has no morals. She might say something really unreasonable like "if you are fine with faggots, why not go around killing people?"

    She is especially strong with SJ...
    Enneagram: 6w7 (phobic) > 2w1 > 9w1
    Alignment: Chaotic Neutral
    Holland Code: AIS
    Date of Birth: March 15, 1996
    Gender: Male
    Political Stance: Libertarian Liberal (Arizona School/Strong BHL)
    ATHEIST UNITARIAN UNIVERSALIST HUMANIST
    and
    SCIENCE ENTHUSIAST


    I say this as a reminder to myself, but this goes for everyone:

    You can achieve anything you set your mind to, and you are limited only by how dedicated you are to succeed!

    -Magic Qwan

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