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  1. #81
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nocturne View Post
    The investigative process need not be fundamentally different for science than for metaphyics or ethics, and conventions of induction and data betray the legacy of naive empiricist epistemology.
    It's hard for me to imagine science without data and induction unless you include the ancient Greek model where they argued about the way the world worked without collecting data and performing experiments. On the one hand they discovered more in this way then I would have thought (i.e. the world is round and they calculated its circumference fairly accurately). On the other hand they believed some things that could easily be disproved by a little empiricism. For example Aristotle argued that a projectile traveled in a straight line until it ran out of energy and then it fell straight to the ground. Today we know a projectile travels in a parabolic arc.

    I think you need a healthy amount of data collection in order to understand how the natural world works. Are you saying that all empiricism is totally unnecessary or simply that data collection is over emphasised in our current methods?
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  2. #82
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    Partially correct.

    Yes we should be confident that the theories we hold to be true are true. But we should also be open to potential refutation of our theories. (As otherwise we become dogmatic and ultimately end up with false beliefs about what the truth is if what we currently hold to be true is false.) So we should still wonder if our current theory may be false, but we shouldn't let this lead us to believe that our current theory is unreliable.
    Yes. I believe I covered this nuance in the phrase "evidence that may point to a new best theory." Undermining the current best theory with the assumption that there has to be another, future best theory does not allow you to use what information you currently have to its fullest extent. But no one is served by not seeking the possibility of a better theory. necessitates holding (not accepting, but entertaining) potentially contradictory conclusions, weighting them according to the current best theories, and continually re-weighting them and discarding them as new evidence arises.
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  3. #83
    Senior Member reason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    It's hard for me to imagine science without data and induction unless you include the ancient Greek model where they argued about the way the world worked without collecting data and performing experiments. On the one hand they discovered more in this way then I would have thought (i.e. the world is round and they calculated its circumference fairly accurately). On the other hand they believed some things that could easily be disproved by a little empiricism. For example Aristotle argued that a projectile traveled in a straight line until it ran out of energy and then it fell straight to the ground. Today we know a projectile travels in a parabolic arc.

    I think you need a healthy amount of data collection in order to understand how the natural world works. Are you saying that all empiricism is totally unnecessary or simply that data collection is over emphasised in our current methods?
    I mean to say that experiment and observation (or data) are only useful for the pursuit of truth in a critical capacity i.e. to refute or falsify theories. The most useful role of data is to knock down theories which have been offered conjecturally, candidates for the truth. The role which is often expected of data is to be a source from which to derive theories, even though such a derivation is both invalid and question begging. Of course, data may inspire theories, but a theory uninspired by data is a candidate for the crown no different than any other.

    Put the theory first then look for errors. Lack of evidential "support" does not imply falsity and so should not be taken as a negative mark against a theory--employ the policy of "innocent until proven guilty", though be ready to reverse a judgement if it turns out that the data was bad.
    A criticism that can be brought against everything ought not to be brought against anything.

  4. #84
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    Why do some people need demonstrated affection to truly believe I care for them?

  5. #85
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 01011010 View Post
    Why do some people need demonstrated affection to truly believe I care for them?
    I know you were probably asking the topic creator who was begging for a question, but I have a thought on that.

    I believe it could be deep mental conditioning. Most people become imprinted with the idea that those who love you will regularly show it in physical expression. It's something told to us from all angles, from as young as childhood.

    Presumably, that's just some people. Me, I really like cuddling. I just think that someone who loves me, supposing they want to make me feel good, will cuddle me. Sometimes it's that simple.

    It might often be a combination of both reasons I presented.
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  6. #86
    mrs disregard's Avatar
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    I think demonstration of affection goes far beyond the physical.

  7. #87
    Senior Member Sunshine's Avatar
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    5 love languages.

    Mine are quality time and physical touch.

    Different people communicate love in different ways.

  8. #88
    Senior Member Sunshine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 01011010 View Post
    Why do some people need demonstrated affection to truly believe I care for them?
    How are they going to know you care if you don't let them know?

  9. #89
    mrs disregard's Avatar
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    I wasn't stating my own preference (or even expressing an interest in the five languages of love), but I was pointing out that 01011010 might not have been referring to physical demonstrations in particular... he simply doesn't get why any demonstration is necessary.

  10. #90
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dana View Post
    I think demonstration of affection goes far beyond the physical.
    You know, you're right about that, I'm not sure how I over-looked that...
    But if we are going to be really general about it, then Sunshine's question has the right idea.
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