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  1. #11
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by st-t-toat View Post
    sorry, not intended to be; just curious; and given the hint there may well be "a tremendous amount of valuable information here" one wonders were this data cache mined and said value released to members would that make visible content impossible via search & tagging alone?
    The whole idea is to make the content more accessible and valuable to members (as well as non-members). I guess I don't know a lot about VBulletin's data structure though I'm sure it's complex. The content we are really interested in is posts and that's mostly all text with links and some inserted files occasionally. So, the whole thing is how you can take that post content and make it more indexable and searchable. The two thing that are native VBulletin features that I've been working on are thread tags and thread prefixes because they help to make the content accessible based on keywords and subcategories. If you have any other ideas though, i'm all ears
    Last edited by highlander; 08-27-2014 at 01:09 AM.

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  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    ... VBulletin's data structure ... complex ...
    one intuits you do no "edit & load" but rather "edit directly" at the interface?


    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    ... how you can take that post content and make it more indexable and searchable ...

    mmm ... "dump + NLP (natural language processing)" perhaps?

    is there not some implicit catch-22 with "search"? not knowing "the word" one can't search for it? gems within TC are missed because one has no knowledge of the relevant word/s, making search, ... hard?


    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    ... native VBulletin features that I've been working on are thread tags and thread prefixes ...

    one intuits "native vbulletin" features may be all that are readily available then?


    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    ... If you have any other ideas though, i'm all ears
    ha! a gauntlet? ok ... thinking ...

  3. #13
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by st-t-toat View Post
    one intuits you do no "edit & load" but rather "edit directly" at the interface?
    Not sure what you mean

    Quote Originally Posted by st-t-toat View Post
    mmm ... "dump + NLP (natural language processing)" perhaps?
    Re hidden gems - Not sure how to go about it but it sounds like an interesting idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by st-t-toat View Post
    one intuits "native vbulletin" features may be all that are readily available then?
    Well that's our forum software so yes.

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  4. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    Not sure what you mean.
    where one needs to "edit or augment" data/metadata within some database, there are often tools designed to simplify the process - tools which often, for example, assist the export & downloading of the data to where one can then use a set of "preferred tools" to massage the data into "better shape"; one then simply uploads the data again when editing is complete; these "tools" often allow the automating (or at least the simplifying) of much of the prescribed work? in the absence of such tools, one's only recourse is to edit/augment data items individually (via native administrator features) - often a slow and time consuming process? where one has few transactions to handle, it may not matter, rendering the suggestion ... moot?


    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    Not sure how to go about it but it sounds like an interesting idea.
    where one's content is text (especially social media text), NLP is increasingly the approach; i am out-of-touch with the current tech but will chat with a friend and ship a brief possible approach (later); given vB is somewhat insular, this may similarly not be an option (readily) available to you?


    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    Well that's our forum software so yes.
    a quick search suggests vB is not surrounded by a strong open developer community, one providing a rich ecosystem of tools designed to complement/augment native vB features? some products have a healthy community of developers which supports a vast number of tools designed to support the core product and in some cases even extend it; given vB appears to be bereft of such a support ecosystem, native vB tools may be all you have at your disposal? which again limits (bland) suggestions like those above?
    Last edited by st-t-toat; 08-28-2014 at 09:32 PM.

  5. #15

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    i'm not sure i'm not just dragging red herrings here, so, do just "bin as appropriate";

  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    ... sounds like an interesting idea.
    ok i've been soundly slapped ...

    de rig for getting around anything is ... search

    the dominant mode for getting around the net is duuu ... google search

    so, your choice of sphinx sits well with this dominant thinking mode and is, well, ... well chosen

    as for far more visual and semantic methods of access/analysis via NLP and such

    the semantic web (and good tools) has yet to really make it

    which means i have had my hand on it

    so,

    i am contrite and

    back in my box (almost) ...

  7. #17

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    as a hesitant first step in tackling the visualisation of the semantic content of TC, one might first trial one of the simplest NLP visualisations available - the wordcloud?

    the wordcloud provides a visualisation of word usage within some source text by simply resizing individual words proportional to how frequently they are used and then
    arranging the result into some chosen visual display format; "noise" words are typically identified and then culled from the display; hyperlinks back to the original
    source can often also be effected;

    there are a range of wordcloud tools available, including, tagcrowd, wordle, tagxedo, wordsift, many eyes ...

    some people deem wordclouds ... harmful?

    Tag cloud - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

  8. #18
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by st-t-toat View Post
    as a hesitant first step in tackling the visualisation of the semantic content of TC, one might first trial one of the simplest NLP visualisations available - the wordcloud?

    the wordcloud provides a visualisation of word usage within some source text by simply resizing individual words proportional to how frequently they are used and then
    arranging the result into some chosen visual display format; "noise" words are typically identified and then culled from the display; hyperlinks back to the original
    source can often also be effected;

    there are a range of wordcloud tools available, including, tagcrowd, wordle, tagxedo, wordsift, many eyes ...

    some people deem wordclouds ... harmful?

    Tag cloud - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    We implemented that and it killed the forum so it's pretty much turned off now. Huge number of unindexed queries impacting performance.

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  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    We implemented that and it killed the forum so it's pretty much turned off now. .
    one assumes the wordcloud component implemented was what was natively available within vb?

    apart from the performance hassle, did the resulting wordcloud look like it might be "useful"?


    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    Huge number of unindexed queries impacting performance.
    the absence of indexing is esp curious?

    and not surprisingly, fairly fatal, as you suggest?

    one assumes (lack of) indexing is some unmodifiable "feature" of vb's wordcloud?

    does your use of sphinx perhaps impact the vb wordcloud artifact?

    -

    while i'm interested in the TC interface

    i must admit i was thinking more of NLP as

    a mechanism for first, assisting administration (with tags, say?)

    rather than initially allowing unalloyed access by the whole community?


    -

    clearly i'm an eloi in morlock waters here, so, well out of my depth;

    i don't want to be wasting your time; feel free to kill the conversation at any time;

    i'm sure TC has top-drawer tech support and has carefully tested this sort of option?

  10. #20
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by st-t-toat View Post
    one assumes the wordcloud component implemented was what was natively available within vb?

    apart from the performance hassle, did the resulting wordcloud look like it might be "useful"?




    the absence of indexing is esp curious?

    and not surprisingly, fairly fatal, as you suggest?

    one assumes (lack of) indexing is some unmodifiable "feature" of vb's wordcloud?

    does your use of sphinx perhaps impact the vb wordcloud artifact?

    -

    while i'm interested in the TC interface

    i must admit i was thinking more of NLP as

    a mechanism for first, assisting administration (with tags, say?)

    rather than initially allowing unalloyed access by the whole community?


    -

    clearly i'm an eloi in morlock waters here, so, well out of my depth;

    i don't want to be wasting your time; feel free to kill the conversation at any time;

    i'm sure TC has top-drawer tech support and has carefully tested this sort of option?
    It's all good feedback.

    We have some SEO software that allows you to come up with a set of keywords and then for those keywords to be searched in the thread name and OP. When those keywords are found, they are added to thread tags. It would be an ideal way to index our content if it didn't kill performance. The performance impact could have something to do with sphinx search but I tend to doubt it. There is not much to do about it in either case because native VBulletin search sucks so bad that it is pretty much unusable. We need Sphinx.

    Hashtags are another possibility I suppose. I don't know how that would scale. It would take a custom program to put them all out there though and that's not really native VBulletin functionality for them to be indexed. I wonder what massive hashtagging of posts/threads would do?

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