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  1. #21
    Senior Member Dark Razor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Il Morto Qui Parla View Post
    the test is biased to make most people appear to the left of their "centre". "globalisation primarily beneficial to humans, or corporations"...hmmm I wonder....that's a dead cert for a check in the left wing box for anyone who answers honestly.
    I dont think so, firstly there are people who think that globalization should primarily benefit corporations, if through those corporations they also benefit personally.

    Secondly, the interests of transnational Corporations and humanity as a whole are mostly opposed to each other, as those Corporations are trying to maximize their profits at the expense of those people who are not essential to maintain their production and sales processes, meaning that all people who are neither (potential) customers nor highly skilled and therefor non-expendable workers are to be utilized to maximum effect (read: exploited) to generate maximized profits. In general, from the point of view of the company, the well being of people is only relevant in so far as it affects the profits of that company, if profits can be increased by harming people without this negatively affecting the company then people will be harmed.

    Another point is that the enviroment, which in itself is also a ressource that is utilized in any production process, is also exploited und abused to maximize profits. In most cases this leaves the private company with the profits and the public with the costs in form of envorimental destruction, pollution and associated health effects, of which the removal is either paid for by the tax payer or by no one at all, meaning that it just lingers there as a constant threat to public health. Therefor the interests of the public and those of private Corporations are opposed to each other in this regard as well.

    The above point is especially ironic because advertising and marketing makes people, or "consumers" believe that they need to buy loads of unnecessary crap, which is then produced at their expense and ultimately does not only hurt them financially but may also harm them physically in the end.

    So yes, most people do not benefit if Corporations benefit and should therefore vote with "humans" here, only the few people who benefit directly from increased profits should vote Corporations. That does of course put most people on the "left", however it should be noted that those "left" policies are actually in the interest of most people, while most policies commonly associated with the "right" benefit mostly the rich, a minority of society.

    Of course there is a lot of propaganda to to show that what's good for the rich is also good for everyone else, so that many people support policies which actually hurt them personally, which is why more people vote for politicians who want to implement neoliberal policies than there are people who would actually benefit from those policies.

    So the questions are not biased, it's just that many policies commonly associated with the "left" are those that are in the interests of the majority of people. So it is only natural that more people would end up there, and also vote for it in actual elections.

    However the goal of a candidate in an election in a representative democracy is to delude people into thinking they would represent their voter's interests, to get elected and then carry out their own agenda, which benefits them and those who bribed them (a.k.a. gave them "campaign contributions") while using his PR strategist to still let it appear as if he were serving the interests of those who elected him. Which is why so many people vote to hurt themself.

  2. #22

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    Dark Razor

    The "centre" in the test should be the point to which 50% fall to the left, and 50% fall to the right (or as close as possible). "Left" and "right" are not absolute definitions, they are relative to the people taking the test.

    Otherwise it is like an MBTI test asking "Would you prefer to be happy or to own an algebra text book" and then score a point for F if you answer the first one. Now, owning algebra text books may or may not harm your chances of being "happy", but the question presumes that it does; so presented with that dilemma, anyone answering honestly would choose to be happy. Also it poses such a hard to disagree with version of "happy" (ie like the political compass does with "benefits humanity") that it's impossible to answer honestly without scoring an F point, even if you very much like algebra textbooks; however posed with the (in your opinion false) dilemma, you;d choose "happiness", even if your definition of happiness is very different from the typical F, and even if in relaity, you love algebra. The result would be, lots of people score more F than they should. And in political compass, lots of people score more left wing than they should on a scientifically defined scale, ie people who support cutting tax for corporations and who have a very different view of "huamnity" and "benefit" to you, will answer the same way as you, and falsely appear to resemble your view more closely than they do.


    If the person who wrote the test believes that most people who favour cutting taxes for corporations are doing so because they love corporations rather than as a tool which they think will eventually benefit people, then they are too unrealistic to be trusted to write such a test.
    dead man talking

  3. #23
    Senior Member Dark Razor's Avatar
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    Ok, I agree that the question is badly phrased in so far as it presents people who actually believe that "what is good for corporations is ultimately good for us all" with the dilema that they would want to say "both", so maybe that question needs a third option.

    The question of which distribution we expect of course depends on what we want to actually meassure with that poll.

    Left and Right in this poll is definded by the policies and ideologies which are represented by the politicians on each side. So, if we look objectively at what percentage of the population actually benefits from the policies of those politicians, then we can determine how the distribution should look if people voted according to their actual interests.

    I doubt this distribution would be 50/50 as the politicians associated with the right mostly represent the interests of , say the top 10-20 percent of the population.

    So if we aim for a 50/50 distribution then we have many people that are on the "wrong" side, meaning they support something that harms them, while thinking it's actually helping them.

    What I am saying is that the distribution should reflect the percentages of people that are represented by the politicians on the corresponding side and the questions should be phrased to produce that outcome, of course that would require the people who take the poll to actually be aware of the fact that they hold views which support policies that potentially do harm to them. So, if we assume that the average poll taker is not aware of this fact then we have to include such dilema questions so that he ends up on the right side and knows what he really should support.

    So I would like the poll to meassure what someone should support to have his own interests represented as accurately as possible, which would require a distribution different then 50/50, and to phrase the questions in the manner I outlined.

    What the poll actually meassures if you aim for a 50/50 distribution is how much people are influenced by the propaganda around them, because we get to see how many and which people support goals detrimental to their own happiness. Basically it meassures how well your political views match with your social status (if we had that data available).

  4. #24
    shoshaku jushaku rivercrow's Avatar
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    Moved to "Bonfire"
    Who rises in the morning, looks in the mirror and says, "I think I will do something stupid today?" -- James Hollis
    If people never did silly things nothing intelligent would ever get done. -- Ludwig Wittgenstein
    Whaling is illegal in Oklahoma.

  5. #25
    Senior Member Lurker's Avatar
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    Economic Left/Right: -6.75
    Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.85

  6. #26
    heart on fire
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    Quote Originally Posted by ladyinwaiting
    I disagree with the notion that humanity has to mean "the masses" (the leftist notion of the downtrodden). There is no dispute between "multi-national corporations" and humanity. Yet the question presents one. To me, the aims of the corporations are the aims of humanity, since the corporations belong to humanity and are part of an institution humanity uses for its aims.

    The aims of multi-national corporations are directed by those at their highest levels and represent a mere fraction of humanity.

  7. #27
    Per Ardua Metamorphosis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    The aims of multi-national corporations are directed by those at their highest levels and represent a mere fraction of humanity.
    Yet the sucess of a major corporation ultimately improves the economy as a whole.

    Economic Left/Right: 3.25
    Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.62

    er...I can't figure out how to put the picture though
    "You will always be fond of me. I represent to you all the sins you never had the courage to commit."

    Reason is, and ought only to be the slave of the passions, and can never pretend to any other office
    than to serve and obey them. - David Hume

  8. #28
    only bites when provoked
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    This test sucks (always has), and I'm a slightly (very slightly) right-leaning libertarian.
    I 100%, N 88%, T 88%, J 75%

    Disclaimer: The above is my opinion and mine alone, it does not mean I cannot change my mind, nor does it guarantee that my comments are related to any deep-seated convictions. Take everything I say with a whole snowplow worth of salt and call me in the morning, if you can.

  9. #29
    Per Ardua Metamorphosis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf View Post
    This test sucks (always has), and I'm a slightly (very slightly) right-leaning libertarian.
    I'm very fiscally conservative but it annoys me how the Republican party is leaning more and more towards strong centralized government. I am for very little government control in virtually every aspect, especially socialist-esque welfare programs.
    "You will always be fond of me. I represent to you all the sins you never had the courage to commit."

    Reason is, and ought only to be the slave of the passions, and can never pretend to any other office
    than to serve and obey them. - David Hume

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