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  1. #11
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    Center Authoritarian!!! THE WORLD IS MINE!!!

  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by LadyInWaiting View Post
    I agree with you nocturne. I thought the test was really, really flawed. So I answered the questions as best I could to get what I knew would be the "correct" result. Here are some of the questions I thought were silly or misleading:
    what an odd way to look at it--politics isn't about truth, it is about value-judgements. you should have just answered honestly--maybe you aren't as rightist as you think you are (its a spectrum after all)? i don't think the questions are any less ridiculous than those asked in MBTI tests, and it didn't force you to chose either/or as you claim, it allowed you to weight your responses.

    The businessperson and the manufacturer are more important than the writer and the artist. Now since I already know that I am a capitalist/conservative/right-authoritarian/whatever, I figured they wanted me to agree with this nonsense. But in reality, I don't think that way and lots of people like me don't. So I disagreed with it. But by disagreeing, does that equal in a checkmark in the "left" column?
    but lots of people who are in the quadrant you placed your self in do agree with that statement. if you don't believe me, ask a bank to give you a loan to take a year off and write. why did you approach the test to get a certain outcome as opposed to just answering the questions and seeing where you ended up? it just seems odd to waste your time if there was only one acceptable result for you going into it.

    In criminal justice, punishment should be more important than rehabilitation. I think punishment can be a form of rehabilitation, or at least, it should be. That's my idealist nature. I answered a lot of questions based on how it should be and how I ultimately believe the future will be.
    shiver

    Abstract art that doesn't represent anything shouldn't be considered art at all. There's no such thing as "abstract art that doesn't represent anything". I'm not stupid, I know what they were talking about. But if it represents something to even one person, than it represents something. However, just because something "represents" that doesn't make it art. But that's not what they asked.
    by definition abstract art is non-representational--i think you are maybe confusing meaning with representation. again, all you had to do was answer that you disagree with the statement, why not just go with it?

    A significant advantage of a one-party state is that it avoids all the arguments that delay progress in a democratic political system. That is a significant advantage of a one-party state. It is also a disadvantage, one of many disadvantages. And all of the disadvantages may or may not outweigh that one advantage. But it is an advantage.
    to you maybe, but not inherently--to me it is not an advantage at all--it is solely a disadvantage. again, you had a clear preference and you preference was an option...so what is the problem?

    Taxpayers should not be expected to prop up any theatres or museums that cannot survive on a commercial basis. Highly annoying question, because it is misrepresentative of the conservative viewpoint. They don't have to be able to survive on a commercial basis. They can be able to survive on a charitable basis. Private charity. But that is not presented as an option, even though it happens to be what conservatives are advocating. Not that museums must be able to turn a profit.
    if it had been worded "do you or do you not believe that museums should receive tax dollars to fund their operations?" would that have changed your answer? if not, then the result is basically the same, isn't it?

    The most important thing for children to learn is to accept discipline. What if I think it's like, the second most important thing (I don't think so linearly anyway, but just suppose)? Then I'd have to disagree. But if I disagree, then my true opinion of discipline will not be reflected.
    well, then you don't think it is the most important thing, do you?

    you could have just agreed without agreeing strongly, right?

    The only social responsibility of a company should be to deliver a profit to its shareholders. Hmm. What if the best way to deliver maximum profits to the shareholders is by inspiring people to want to work for you and work efficiently? By investing in the community so you get support and a better pool of workers? Ultimately, I would say that delivering a profit to the people who own the company is the only social responsibility that matters. But there are ways and there are ways.
    so you agree.

    People are ultimately divided more by class than by nationality. People where? In any particular nation, or in the whole world? People in Burkina Faso are economically disadvantaged compared to people in California. But their culture perhaps has a lot to do with it.
    the wording implies the question is global. the implication is that the poor of the world have more in common with each other than with their rich countrymen and women. so just say you disagree.

    If economic globalisation is inevitable, it should primarily serve humanity rather than the interests of trans-national corporations. The very first question and I was instantly annoyed. Trans-national corporations are part of humanity. They are structures created by humanity to better serve....that same humanity. I assume by humanity they mean some leftist notion of "the masses"?
    the masses being less a part of humanity than corporations? again, all you had to do was hit "disagree strongly" and you would have been golden.

    from your comments, i am not sure that i believe that you really accept the implications of the poltical philosophy that you embrace--otherwise why all the sugarcoating? but anyway, none of the complaints you mention were instances in which your prefered answer was unavailable... your issue seems to be that the test sucks because it doesn't allow for all of the personal political nuances you apply to make your political theory of choice more palatable to you--but it is just a free online test, what do you expect?

  3. #13
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    politics isn't about truth, it is about value-judgements
    I am Fi-dominant. Value judgments and truth are not as distinct for me as they may be for you.

    from you answers above, i am not sure that i believe that you really accept the implications of the dogma you embrace.
    That was my problem with the questions, which were clearly conceived by someone who is not a conservative. I could read the bias in the way the questions were posed. I do accept the implications of conservatism. But to me, many of the questions were aimed at strawmen.

    [quote]none of the complaint you have, were instances in which your answer was unavailable.[quote]

    Actually, much of the time my answer would have been "neither agree nor disagree".

    but lots of people who are in the quadrant you placed your self in do agree with that statement. if you don't believe me, ask a bank to give you a loan to take a year off and write. why did you approach the test to get a certain outcome as opposed to just answering the question and see where you ended up?
    Because the questions are not honestly posed.

    I wouldn't ask a bank to give me a loan to take a year off to write. Not the purpose of bank loans. I would ask my conservative sibling to help. And he would. Family values. I see no correlation between conservatism and valuing certain kinds of people over other kinds of people in the context of the whole world versus a specific interaction.

    I think writers and artists have too much influence for me to think anyone is keeping them down. Especially in the USA, which happens to be the dominant culture in the world.

    I don't know why my hope for the future makes you shiver. I'm going to assume it's a type-aversion, some shadow trigger for you or somesuch.

    by definition abstract art is non-representational--i think you are maybe confusing meaning with representation.

    Oh I see, yes I must be confused. From the wikipedia entry "abstract art is now generally understood to mean art that does not depict objects in the natural world, but instead uses colour and form in a non-representational way." I would not ordinarily associate "represent" with "objects in the natural world", but that just shows I am ignorant on this subject. I guess I disagree that it shouldn't be considered art. Someone might put a lot of pretty colors that represent nothing and it could be art. I do have very little use for it though.

    if it had been worded "do you or do you not believe that museums should receive tax dollars to fund their operations?" would that have changed you answer? if not, the result is basically the same.
    I knew how to get the desired result, I made the post because the questions are ill-conceived. The problem isn't the results, the problem is the misrepresentation of conservative viewpoints. Commercial success has nothing to do with the subject. The museum issue is not an issue of commerce. If museums never contribute to the bottom line, that does not lessen their value to humanity. But high value to humanity does not mean government funding should follow. It has nothing to do with profits and it implies conservatives don't care about the arts (because "everyone knows" most museums will never turn a profit). It is not a choice between government funding and turning profits on your own, not in the mind of the average conservative.

    then you don't think it [discipline] is the most important thing.
    Actually I do, so I agreed. But discipline means a lot more to me than the question implies. I think discipline must be part of every value. So everything a child learns, discipline must be attached. Mental discipline, emotional discipline, self-discipline. But the question is asking about discipline as in justice/punishment/doing what you're supposed to. That's only one component of discipline. And I think that's a high priority, but lower than others. My true answer is not reflected in the test. I neither agree nor disagree.

    I also did agree that the only social responsibility companies have is to the stockholders. But what that means to me and what that means to those asking the question...very different. You're right in that the results are the same. But I am arguing against the misrepresentation inherent in the questions, not the results.

    to me it is not an advantage at all
    Of course it is an advantage to those who share the aims of the party. Stuff will get done, and more quickly. Was the question asking if it was an advantage to me personally, or to anyone at all? Don't know.

    the implication is that the poor of the world have more in common with each other than with their rich countrymen and women. so just say you disagree.
    That's the implication a leftist would read into it. I assumed that was the implication, so I disagreed. But I don't know who says leftists get to decide what class means, what nationality means, etc.

    the masses being less a part of humanity than corporations? again, all you had to do was hit "disagree strongly" and you would have been golden.
    I disagree with the notion that humanity has to mean "the masses" (the leftist notion of the downtrodden). There is no dispute between "multi-national corporations" and humanity. Yet the question presents one. To me, the aims of the corporations are the aims of humanity, since the corporations belong to humanity and are part of an institution humanity uses for its aims.

    it is a free online test, what do you expect?
    And this is a forum for discussion. Was the thread just supposed to be posting scores? How dull.

  4. #14
    Senior Member Dark Razor's Avatar
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    Your political compass
    Economic Left/Right: -7.75
    Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.46

  5. #15
    Senior Member Lookin4theBestNU's Avatar
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    Your political compass (This sort of surprised me!)
    Economic Left/Right: -3.00
    Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.51
    "At points of clarity, I realize that my life on earth is meaningless, and that I am merely a pawn in a bigger game. A game I cannot possibly understand or have control of. Thankfully, before depression sets in, I drift back into my cloudy, bewildered daily routine." **Joel Patrick Warneke**

  6. #16
    It's always something... PuddleRiver's Avatar
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    Economic Left/Right: -7.75
    Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.21

    Gandhi, Nelson and me, oh my.
    "In the depth of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay one invincible summer."
    ~~~~
    A Christian's life may be the only Bible some people ever read.
    ~~~~
    "The first time someone shows you who they are, believe them" Maya Angelou.
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    I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ" Gandhi
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  7. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by LadyInWaiting View Post
    I am Fi-dominant. Value judgments and truth are not as distinct for me as they may be for you.
    this is why people get fed up with infps—look, it's stupid when intps claim that they do not have any values at all; its just as stupid when infps claim we are incapable of discerning truth from opinion.

    i am Fi dominant too, but this does not prevent me from being able to see that some things are purely values based, which cannot be independently verified or refuted, and which are not questions of truth or reality.

    not all things involve truth--values are one of them. this doesn't make them wrong or bad--values are what give meaning to everything. everything worth knowing starts with an underlying value, but like taste, values can only be accepted or rejected: if you like vanilla and i like black cherry, neither of us can be wrong (or right).

    Like you (and every other human being), i use my values to form opinions and to filter and interpret evidence, but i do not deceive myself about what i am doing or not doing. and i do not use my type as a crutch for refusing to think or to grow. mbti should be thrown in the garbage if people will make such a cage of it. better to go with astrology, which at least makes all signs sound pretty good.

    That was my problem with the questions, which were clearly conceived by someone who is not a conservative. I could read the bias in the way the questions were posed. I do accept the implications of conservatism. But to me, many of the questions were aimed at strawmen.
    actually they were culled from political speeches and op eds, I believe. you see bias yet the "leftist" statements are painting with an equally broad brush, and so are equally "biased," and therefore not biased at all. I guarantee that there is a left of center person out there who feels exactly the way you do about this test, but you do not see that because you are biased against leftists and the overtly leftist statements conform to your biased opinion of what a leftist really thinks or doesn't think, so you see those as "accurate,” while you see the questions about you as "biased" and unfair.

    you seem to have missed the whole point of the compass which was that political thought isn't just the far right and left corners of the boxing ring (and to goof off).

    Actually, much of the time my answer would have been "neither agree nor disagree".
    well, I don’t know about that. based on your original, stated objections i would say that that you are deceiving yourself if you honestly believe that you would have picked 50/50. values are about choosing and often the choices are less than ideal, but since you chose to answer the questions to get a result, who knows how it would have come out if you had tried to just answer honestly? you seem to have some issues but maybe that is just how it looks?

    I wouldn't ask a bank to give me a loan to take a year off to write. Not the purpose of bank loans. I would ask my conservative sibling to help. And he would. Family values. I see no correlation between conservatism and valuing certain kinds of people over other kinds of people in the context of the whole world versus a specific interaction.
    it is "not the purpose of banks" only because bank managers do not value writing as a profession--yet writing is a profession that once was widely supported by the courts of europe at tax payers expense, and without such patronage the works of people like shakespeare might never have been produced. there is no valid justification for denying a writer a "small business" loan like any other entrepreneur--many small businesses default, so the risk is not any greater (and actually it is probably less so because the amount of money needed for the venture will be far less).

    as for relying solely on family values, what about people without families? Or people with shit for families? or people from poor families--is a poor brother who would like to help but can't because he has no money lacking in values or in cash? if you don’t luck out in the family department, too bad, so sad?

    I think writers and artists have too much influence for me to think anyone is keeping them down. Especially in the USA, which happens to be the dominant culture in the world.


    I don't know why my hope for the future makes you shiver. I'm going to assume it's a type-aversion, some shadow trigger for you or somesuch.
    i shivered because what you hope for the world, i found terrible--i hope it not for the world. it's not a shadow function, just different values do you see everything in the world as being the result of mbti?

    I guess I disagree that it shouldn't be considered art. Someone might put a lot of pretty colors that represent nothing and it could be art. I do have very little use for it though.
    exactly, your objection has nothing to do with artistic merit, you just don't value art, which is what the question was trying (and did) elicit.

    I knew how to get the desired result, I made the post because the questions are ill-conceived.
    is this how you take mbti tests too? if so, can i ask that you choose a different "result" to "get," it is hard enough being an infp as it is.

    The museum issue is not an issue of commerce. If museums never contribute to the bottom line, that does not lessen their value to humanity. But high value to humanity does not mean government funding should follow. It has nothing to do with profits and it implies conservatives don't care about the arts (because "everyone knows" most museums will never turn a profit). It is not a choice between government funding and turning profits on your own, not in the mind of the average conservative.
    do you stop to listen to yourself? you have just said that art means nothing to you, yet you object to the fact that conservatives are characterized as not-caring about art. museums don't turn profits because they are non-profits entities; but there is a ton of money in art, andart galleries do turn profits.

    i think you took this test too personally—this question was just trying to elicit whether or not you believe museums should be funded with tax payer money, and how strongly you do or do not believe that. you don't believe they should be funded with tax payer money--your quibbling about the sentence not being worded exactly as you would have worded it is little bit silly, i think.

    the questions are designed to force responses, I think-- the issue isn't do you think museums are good or bad, the issue is how good do you think they are? good enough to merit public support? (and yes, what a person thinks as worthy of publicly funded support is a testament to what they value: museums or munitions? schools or scuds? etc.). hard-core capitalist-libertarians don't believe anything is worthy of public support--i would hardly call them conservative though, because that is a pretty radical point of view (as is my disbelief in the private ownership of land and natural resources).

    That's the implication a leftist would read into it. I assumed that was the implication, so I disagreed. But I don't know who says leftists get to decide what class means, what nationality means, etc.
    you are not being serious are you? i hope not-- you are playing with me aren't you? class has meaning, nationality has meaning--plain old ordinary meanings found in any dictionary, you don't need to create some mean, old leftist hobgoblin, who goes around distorting ordinary meanings of words--you are doing that marvelously well on your own. 

    I disagree with the notion that humanity has to mean "the masses" (the leftist notion of the downtrodden). There is no dispute between "multi-national corporations" and humanity. Yet the question presents one. To me, the aims of the corporations are the aims of humanity, since the corporations belong to humanity and are part of an institution humanity uses for its aims.
    humanity, to my mind, includes the downtrodden (those 2 billion living on less than $2 a day, with open sewers running down their "streets," unclean drinking water, and not enough food) and by definition has to include the masses, doesn't it? (since there are over 6 billion of us--masses seems an appropriate description of what we are to me, but we can compromise if you like and just call us "hum-ants" 'k?

    but since corporations are not human beings, they are not included in any definition of humanity or hum-ant-ity. and while, i think there are probably quite a few people around the world that can offer concrete proof that multinationals values and goals can very frequently be opposed to "humanity's" values and goals, it is probably just quicker to read the Lorax instead.

    corporations do not belong to humanity. they belong to their shareholders. humanity does not use corporations; corporations are used by a tiny minority of the world's population to make money off of money.

    And this is a forum for discussion. Was the thread just supposed to be posting scores? How dull.
    this isn't a discussion?

  8. #18
    The Unwieldy Clawed One Falcarius's Avatar
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    Your political compass
    Economic Left/Right: - 5.63
    Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.77
    Quote Originally Posted by Thalassa View Post
    Oh our 3rd person reference to ourselves denotes nothing more than we realize we are epic characters on the forum.

    Narcissism, plain and simple.

  9. #19

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    the test is biased to make most people appear to the left of their "centre". "globalisation primarily beneficial to humans, or corporations"...hmmm I wonder....that's a dead cert for a check in the left wing box for anyone who answers honestly.
    dead man talking

  10. #20
    Wannabe genius Splittet's Avatar
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    I don't have my exact results, but they were:

    Economic Left/Right: -1.5
    Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -3.5

    It's two years since I took the test, and much has changed since then, because I have become a passive nihilist. Basically I don't care much for politics anymore, but I guess I have become more liberal since then. But I feel like I need to figure out a philosophy before I can figure out any political views.

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