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Thread: Vegetarianism

  1. #81
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    That sounds amazing. I wish this was the standard all farms had to be up to. ...

    For now though, going vegan seems to be the only viable option to me - if only to take a stand.
    The downside is that you have to have many of those farms within your reach--doesn't really help to have an awesome, outstanding farm and also be 100 miles away from the closest place that sells its products. It's one of the things I really want to take into consideration when we shop for our property--is the number of farms within reach of us when we move. I don't mind living an hour and a half from the city if everything I need locally is close by.

    Quote Originally Posted by johnnyyukon View Post
    That's because you're a Valkyrie Warrior, and they are allergic to vegetables, and rejuvenated by meat mana.
    It's true, I do require meat to function. Not much of it, and I'd say animal products (milk, cheese, honey, eggs) I use at least 3 to 1 against the actual meat itself.. so Vegetarianism is almost do-able for me if it was an egg/fish diet. I forget the term for it. Ovonomavore or something.

    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    I think small, local farms is definitely one of the answers. But the economic thing is such a tie-up. Idealistically, I'd totally trade money to eat morally right. Realistically, I know it's hard, and I know the world doesn't revolve on ideals.
    It's not really practical. I've been struggling with it--and even shopping at discount farmer markets up the road from me, it's impossible buy enough non-hormonal meat to feed the entire family without spending a massive amount of money all at once to buy half a cow at a time, high quality canned fish, and whole chickens at a time, and if you got a couple chickens to lay the eggs for your family.. then MAYBE it'll work out. But for us.. we're feeding 3-6 people each month on $130-150 a month. It's impossible to do without using grocery stores that make their money off of that inhumane stuff too, as the humane ones usually have higher prices on all the things they sell.

    It isn't IMPOSSIBLE.. and we're working on saving up money to start switching it around. But it requires time and effort--that many people just don't have. To include us. Like having a family garden. Like picking your own fruit so that it's cheaper. It requires portion sizing everything, using up every single thing you purchase so nothing goes to waste (sometimes eating bland soups just because the vegetable was going bad and we had to boil it over a long time to make sure it was edible and not infective).

    The thing is is that the machine isn't just the animals themselves. The grocery stores that fuel those places are fueled via products that don't have anything to do with the animals. It's a big zany mess once you get into the moral grounds of it all.

    While I wouldn't say grocery stores like Trader Joes, Whole Foods, and Sprouts are exactly stellar in their record of only supporting moralistic produce and products, they aren't really nearly as bad as Walmart either. The bigger the chain, the more likely they are to support shady stuff.
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  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnyyukon View Post
    Actual evidence/proof/facts?
    http://www.csa.com/discoveryguides/meat/review.pdf
    http://www.fao.org/ag/magazine/0612sp1.htm
    http://www.meat-ims.org/old-site/IMS...inal-20710.pdf

    Not all there is out there to read, but there's some. It baffles me that you've not heard of this.

    Quote Originally Posted by johnnyyukon View Post
    Basically your argument is "Humans are omnivores and can eat meat, therefore they should be vegans."
    What? I said that avoiding consumption of meat is better for the environment, and it would not be harmful or unnatural to do this, as we are omnivores.

    Quote Originally Posted by johnnyyukon View Post
    Bears are omnivores too, so I tend to agree, they should switch from eating salmon to just berries.
    Bears didn't start the Industrial Revolution and went on to pollute everything. Bears aren't smart.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    that right there is all the justification I need.
    Good, at least you're honest. And so I know what kind of person you are, and to avoid you. Self-entitled, self-centered and idiotically hedonistic people will get what's coming to them eventually. Goodbye.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noll View Post
    http://www.csa.com/discoveryguides/meat/review.pdf
    http://www.fao.org/ag/magazine/0612sp1.htm
    http://www.meat-ims.org/old-site/IMS...inal-20710.pdf

    Not all there is out there to read, but there's some. It baffles me that you've not heard of this.

    What? I said that avoiding consumption of meat is better for the environment.
    Of course I've heard of it. Strange though, how it leaves out the negative effects of agriculture on the environment. There must not be any!
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnyyukon View Post
    Of course I've heard of it. Strange though, how it leaves out the negative effects of agriculture on the environment. There must not be any!
    There is, no one has ever said that a vegan diet leaves no environmental impact at all. Though the environmental impact would be much lower if the whole world was vegan, as plants (soybeans etc), instead of being fed to animals who are going to be slaughtered, could be fed directly to humans. This way we could also solve world hunger more easily.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noll View Post
    There is, no one has ever said that a vegan diet leaves no environmental impact at all. Though the environmental impact would be much lower if the whole world was vegan, as plants (soybeans etc), instead of being fed to animals who are going to be slaughtered, could be fed directly to humans. This way we could also solve world hunger more easily.
    I never thought of that. You really have it figured out. I can't believe I met the guy that has the solution to world hunger on a forum, so simple: "The whole world should be vegan." You should contact the United Nations IMMEDIATELY and let them know!

    You are a true pioneer and visionary that's definitely NOT a condescending snob.
    I've had this ice cream bar, since I was a child!

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnyyukon View Post
    I never thought of that. You really have it figured out. I can't believe I met the guy that has the solution to world hunger on a forum, so simple: "The whole world should be vegan." You should contact the United Nations IMMEDIATELY and let them know!

    You are a true pioneer and visionary that's definitely NOT a condescending snob.
    Oh wow. Goodbye.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noll View Post
    Oh wow. Goodbye.
    Awwww, you're running away?? We'll miss you, bye bye!
    I've had this ice cream bar, since I was a child!

    Each thought's completely warped
    I'm like a walkin', talkin', ouija board.

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    She is right, though. Right now, we're growing crops to feed the abundance of slaughter animals there, instead of consuming the crop ourselves. And the water, energy and resources needed for this convoluted process are killing us in the famine, ecological and economical department. It would be more economical, charitable and ecological to actually stick to consuming the crop ourselves.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    It would be more economical, charitable and ecological to actually stick to consuming the crop ourselves.
    It probably would. A LOT of things would and could be more charitable. She's young and idealistic and things are not that simple. I hope she can make some real changes for the better some day, but talking down to people and judging people is generally not the best way to do it.
    I've had this ice cream bar, since I was a child!

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    I'm like a walkin', talkin', ouija board.

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnyyukon View Post
    It probably would. A LOT of things would. She's young and idealistic and things are not that simple. I hope she can make some real changes for the better some day, but talking down to people and judging people is generally not the best way to do it.
    *holds up a mirror*

    Doesn't mean she doesn't have a point - one that deserves fleshing out and being heard. And it doesn't mean you're not being a hypocrite *again*. Remember that chat we had, a while ago? Yeah. We're here again.
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