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Thread: Vegetarianism

  1. #271
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    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmitiveAnxiety View Post
    This is cute and everything but has nothing to do with my post and does little more than to distract people, however it's incorrect that you need meat for protein or to be strong, it's very outdated thinking, and there are plenty of vegetarians who are athletes or even body builders. Lacto Ovo vegetarians actually have no problem with this as long as they consume a balanced diet and don't try to live off of cheese pizza (but most athletes don't have junk food diets anyway). ..you can even be a vegan athlete, one of the most notorious examples is Mike Tyson, and there are more than a few hot guys in Hollywood (Christian Bale is a lifelong vegetarian and Jared Leto became vegan in the past few years and looks younger than he is, I find both of them ridiculously attractive) that are either vegetarian or vegan. If you want more information on where vegetarians get protein, just let me know.

  2. #272
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kullervo View Post
    Um what? That's the complete opposite of what I said. I just believe that deforestation in developed countries is a symptom of overpopulation. You also haven't suggested anywhere to date that you view free range meat in a much better light than factory-farmed meat. I am glad to be corrected!

    Unlike you I suspect, I live ten minutes away from one of the country's biggest chicken farms. I am quite aware of what factory farming is like.



    I like meat, and I'm not alone in having that preference, so instead of trying to radically change the West's eating culture without consent, if I were you I would just promote changes in farming practices (some of which are already happening, like fencing off rivers from stock). In that case we would be on the same side of the fence, so to speak.

    There's lots of room in NZ for farming, just like there is in the US. Again unlike you I'm a nationalist, and don't view other countries' woes as something to become involved in unless they direct affect me.

    I quoted it for truth in someone else's post and also shared this view in Kyuueis thread on Farmacy.

    And deforestation in other countries happens at the hands of major corporations, it's not just those damn peasants making babies, though I agree overpopulation is a problem, I urge you to read about the link between agricultural practices and deforestation, it's one of the first things I learned in my forestry course.

    I see you take a self centered view about the earth, and that's your choice, however there are plenty of stats on decreased risk of heart disease, some types of cancer, and diabetes among vegetarians and vegans, so that can be "about you."

    c19c1508dffafda6cf24b56d9abf0653.jpg

  3. #273
    Senior Member countrygirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gromit View Post
    Ah so like processed food vs less processed. I gotcha. I mean we will always process to some extent, but like mashing up garbanzos for hummus is a lot closer to real living food sources than say easy mac (not that easy mac is not delicious)
    Some cooking does involve processing but when you cook from scratch, you can control the ingredients.
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  4. #274
    noʎ ɟo ǝʇnɔ ʍoH Mademoiselle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    How do you live with such profound ignorance? There are people who are lifelong vegans, not just vegetarians. I don't think you have anything of value to add to this thread. Albert Einstein was a vegetarian, and so was Tolstoy, it's not just a fad or a recent trend, there are entire cultures which are vegetarian.

    Attachment 12987

    1-Don’t dare to judge me.
    2-We’re not talking about us we’re talking about vegetarianism.
    3-I don’t live with ignorance.
    4-There are lifelong non-vegans, too.
    5-Not being a vegan won’t end your life.
    6-That’s not even a reason to die.
    7-Our value is equal we’re both the same = members.
    8-But of course I respect myself and others unlike you I know how to be proper.
    9-Specially my opinion is against this and if you have any idea about giving opinions you’d know critique is at least as valuable as supporting.
    10-Not jus Einstein or Tolstoy, but if the rest of the world did something I won’t follow until I know everything about it.
    Now this is blindly following, ..
    I can’t recall who offended tradition.
    But anything followed blindly is lame, even great respected humans.

    So in short, that’s nit even a point to support the idea.
    So what? Do you even know their reason to take that choice?
    Trends and fashion VS Mind and knowledge
    For real?
    Imagine this is the best thing you've ever read.

  5. #275
    Senior Member countrygirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bog View Post
    Here's an interesting, pretty much unbiased article about the effects of different diets on the environment...
    Vegetarian or omnivore: The environmental implications of diet - The Washington Post
    This is interesting indeed. However, the article did not mention (in reference to commercial farming) the cost of diesel fuel for the tractor for plowing (if not doing no-till) planting/harvesting and the emissions released nor the fact that conventional farming requires herbicides/pesticides and fertilizers which also harms the environments.

    Lets not forget that vegetable farming requires cheap labour if you want cheap food.
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  6. #276
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by countrygirl View Post
    Lets not forget that vegetable farming requires cheap labour if you want cheap food.
    Desperate workers on a Mexican mega-farm: 'They treated us like slaves'
    Los Angeles Times‎ - 1 day ago


    Food is just expensive.
    The cost is going to come out somewhere whether it's economic, ethical, environmental, or just inconvenience.
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it
    Likes Ivy, Vasilisa liked this post

  7. #277
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mademoiselle View Post

    1-Don’t dare to judge me.
    2-We’re not talking about us we’re talking about vegetarianism.
    3-I don’t live with ignorance.
    4-There are lifelong non-vegans, too.
    5-Not being a vegan won’t end your life.
    6-That’s not even a reason to die.
    7-Our value is equal we’re both the same = members.
    8-But of course I respect myself and others unlike you I know how to be proper.
    9-Specially my opinion is against this and if you have any idea about giving opinions you’d know critique is at least as valuable as supporting.
    10-Not jus Einstein or Tolstoy, but if the rest of the world did something I won’t follow until I know everything about it.
    Now this is blindly following, ..
    I can’t recall who offended tradition.
    But anything followed blindly is lame, even great respected humans.

    So in short, that’s nit even a point to support the idea.
    So what? Do you even know their reason to take that choice?
    Trends and fashion VS Mind and knowledge
    For real?
    Your argument in this last post is that vegans or vegetarians will have health problems. You are spreading misinformation and really aren't making any valid points, the end. You didn't have to come to a thread marked vegetarian. Sometimes I swear to Christ, meat eaters are like the worst of conservative Christians: they're such Nazis about their own traditional beliefs that they refuse to take responsibility when they are the antagonist in the situation, blaming the non Christian or vegetarian. Your whole attitude is piss poor, you actually told someone you had checkmated them on why vegetarian diet is wrong. It's ignorant, you are promoting ignorance.
    Likes Chanaynay liked this post

  8. #278
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kullervo View Post
    I have not suggested that you must eat meat to be healthy - only that vegetarianism requires you to eat frequently and in many cases, take dietary supplements.

    And here's a little factoid: anthropologists believe that one of the main advances in human evolution was a switch from a plant-based to omnivorous diet. Meat is much more energy-dense than plant matter, and this led to an increase in human cranial capacity (correlated with IQ).
    The energy density was relevant when we were running around half starved like wild animals, so it's not as important anymore, the energy density mattered in a completely different world. It's why I don't see a problem with eating game if one doesn't have access to modern agricultural diet for some reason. If meat is the only reason we evolved, bears and cats would be closer to our level.

    It's also untrue that vegetarians have to eat more frequently, it's just that culturally speaking, most people from Western European or English speaking cultures don't have the training to fix balanced vegetarian meals the way someone from India or the Middle East would, but it's really not that hard, especially if you're lacto ovo, it's like. ..um, you're still eating eggs and cheese, if you want to watch your cholesterol throw in some tofu and you're all set. Of course beans and pulses provide iron and protein as well.

    Veganism is more of a learning experience, but it wasn't as hard for me as it might be for some people, because first of all I enjoy cooking and preparing food anyway, and secondly I had some money to buy staples and make mistakes. People who have a tighter budget or who don't want to put the effort in, they can easily easily be lacto ovo, or transition to veganism slowly over time from being lacto ovo (many vegans do this, sometimes over a period of years).

    But once you have your nutritional staples and lose the mentality that the world revolves around meat (I don't have this mindset as much as some people anyway, I always ate a lot of vegetarian meals)...you can actually be vegan affordably, and will probably only have to eat more frequently if you're a hard core athlete who does triathlons or something, or if you have further restricted yourself from oils or other dietary conceits. A lot of vegans who "fail" either weren't properly educated to begin with (seriously, you have to read at least one book written by a nutritionist) or they try to do gluten free raw low fat vegan, and wonder why they feel like shit...it's because they are restricting themselves unreasonably. Raw veganism is bad for a lot of people, it actually keeps you from getting vital nutrients and can tear up your digestive system, it goes against a lot of Far Eastern traditional medicine, where cold and hot have to be balanced, and against any Western nutritionist I respect. Though some people can do it, I think they have a specific body type, or are advanced yogis. Yogis have in many cases been able to live off of very little food, things that would kill most people, because they have such amazing mind over matter, of course that's rare.

  9. #279
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    I was looking up information on the tenuous link between our evolution and meat, and found this amusing point of view, from a biologist:

    human-ancestors-were-nearly-all-vegetarians/

    Oh, and this fun article:

    Why You All Can Stop Saying Meat Eating Fueled Evolution of Larger Brains Right Now

  10. #280
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arcana View Post
    Humans are still alive without nonvegetarian diets. Humans are also very healthy without nonvegetarian diets. And I'm not talking about rich people in the west who can afford to buy fancy schmancy food supplements either. There are vegetarian populations in the non-Western, non-developed world who do just fine.

    So by your logic, nonvegetarian diets are unnecessary.

    It might be difficult for you to adopt a vegetarian diet without feeling stressed and thinking about nothing else. But you don't speak for all humanity and your personal inclinations aren't universal facts.

    Yeah I missed this, but the majority of the world's vegetarian population lives in India and they only consume milk, no eggs. Vegetarianism can be traced to ancient Greece and India, and there are large vegetarian populations in Israel, Taiwan and Italy.

    It's common for Buddhists and Taoists, as well as Hindus, all "non Western" faiths.

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