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Thread: Vegetarianism

  1. #251
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deceptive View Post
    As I said before, it's not a solution although it does bring attention to it. Personally, with all my knowledge of the meat industry, I want nothing to do with it so I've opted out of consuming their products. I'm uncomfortable knowing what I eat has been tortured to death, why support it? I'll eat wholesome food that doesn't contribute to the meat industry finances.

    Furthermore, I don't understand why you're judging people for a choice they make that does not impact you. It's hypocritical to judge vegetarians/vegans but not religious groups, there's not much difference behind the motivations not to consume meat.
    Rational veganism or vegetarian lifestyles, that would acknowledge limited animal products in emergency, health crisis, or starvation (being trapped in the woods without access to a balanced agricultural diet) are much much more rational, timely and ethically productive than most religion, though it bears pointing out that Adam and Eve were vegan, and Islam and Judaism both exclude many animal products and recommend periods of healthful fasting.

    Gluttony is a "sin" even translated into pagan earth based religion who gave thanks and respect to the animal in question, and used every part.

    Green Christians will declare we were assigned stewardship of the earth, that we were vegetarian before the fall of man to evil, and "dominion" over animals contains the root of god, meaning a more loving and gentle stewardship over the animals, not to be cruel to them.
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  2. #252
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mademoiselle View Post
    I’m not judging vegetarians.
    I judged vegetarianism, and it’s checkmate.
    No I'm not sure you are fully informed or have entirely thought this through, and I recommend documentaries such as Food Inc and Forks Over Knives, as well as doing a lot of reading on the more global consequences of factory farming and excessive meat consumption, versus immediate gratification.

    As my ENTJ friend said last night, how can so many people be so stupid and so blind. It's lack of information, it's a kind of stuffy adherence to tradition more than anything, rather than overt cruelty or actual stupidity. Habit is powerful, and so are our basest instincts that really only fully serve us in times of want.

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    Quote Originally Posted by danseen View Post
    so eating only veggies means one will devolve....hmmm....i guess we'l be seeing many homo erectus or homo habilis vegertarians then...
    We will only evolve by adopting a more rational diet, as it's fully possible to get B12 now without eating animals, and you could also choose to eat free range eggs and humane goat milk or cheese sparingly....we will not devolve, we are not living in chaos and desperate times of cave men, we are fully educated about nutrition and agriculture, we don't have to eat a deer to survive the next three days, people think with their monkey brain, yet they talk about devolving, it's absurd.

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    Quote Originally Posted by prplchknz View Post
    NRDC: Pollution from Giant Livestock Farms Threatens Public Health



    so yes there are options to buy from places that don't produce meat in factory farm settings but it's actually more expensive then going vegetarian. So that's the enviromental reason why people go vegetarian.
    QFT

  5. #255
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    We will only evolve by adopting a more rational diet, as it's fully possible to get B12 now without eating animals, and you could also choose to eat free range eggs and humane goat milk or cheese sparingly....we will not devolve, we are not living in chaos and desperate times of cave men, we are fully educated about nutrition and agriculture, we don't have to eat a deer to survive the next three days, people think with their monkey brain, yet they talk about devolving, it's absurd.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

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  6. #256
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Ugh. I hate when people use evolutionary terms when they're really talking about values.

    Just use good/bad not evolution/devolution

    Devolution (biology) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Devolution, de-evolution, or backward evolution is the notion that species can change into more "primitive" forms over time. In modern biology the term is redundant: evolutionary science deals with selection or adaptation that results in populations of organisms genetically different from their ancestral forms. The discipline makes no general distinction between changes leading to populations of forms less complex or more complex than their ancestors, and in such terms the concept of a primitive species cannot be defined consistently. Consequently, within the discipline such a word is rarely useful.
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  7. #257
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    This is selective reasoning, and ignores the vast number of people who live a lifetime or longer than expected on a vegetarian or vegan diet. We have manipulated the world in order to destroy it, and we can, by all intents and purposes, lice heathily on vegetarian diets or vegan diets, because we have the science for it. Eating meat was an act of desperation when things were rough, and of course during starvation, I wouldn't deny anyone the consumption of another mammal. But as a whole, eating animal products now is pretty much comically out of control, so inflated compared to a hundred years ago, giving us lots of heart disease, cancer, air and water pollution, animal cruelty, obesity and "autoimmune disorders" leading to unexplained pain, intensified PMS symptoms, increased pain in diseases like diabetes and arthritis, and a plethora of unexpected consequences.
    Oh the hypocrisy. It is perfectly possible to enjoy a diet that includes animal flesh without the health problems you mention. Poor genetics, and consumption of cured products, will increase your risk substantially, but a nice beef or fish steak every night won't kill you. There is nothing unnatural with killing other animals for food, all I'd ask is that it is done in a humane way (hence my opposition to kosher slaughter, for example). And dairy doesn't involve killing animals at all, so your rationale for avoiding milk and cheese is even more tenuous.

    I would also ask where you can draw the line with such a worldview, after all plants are living organisms too, and we grow some of them specifically for food. You're really making a value judgement that because animals can feel pain, we shouldn't eat them. That doesn't cut it with me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    Meat and dairy products were status of the aristocratic sort who died of intestinal blockage, not the hardy peasants doing farm work. During Nazi invasion pre and during WWII, one population of European people decreased significantly in heart disease because of lack of access to animal protein.
    See above.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    People have twisted things into a bizarre starvation mentality that we are far from, but we are inflicting horrific damage on the earth and to other human beings due to over consumption of animal products. It's not just processed food, factory farming is destroying people.
    So now you're comparing consumption of all meat, fish, and dairy products with factory farming. Forgive me, but I must assume that you live in the U.S. and have never left it. Re deforestation, this is much more of an issue in developing countries, and the real reason for it is that they have too many children.

  8. #258
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Lab grown meat is the future.

    It doesn't involve killing any actually sentient animals, doesn't demand nearly as many resources as raising livestock, and you can still have your hamburgers and crap. All problems settled.

    And of course if you just don't like eating meat, you can still go right ahead and do that.
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  9. #259
    noʎ ɟo ǝʇnɔ ʍoH Mademoiselle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    You are incorrect. Everyone becoming vegan today would stop deforestation, decrease air and water pollution, increase the supply of food so that the entire seven billion of the world could eat adequately, as well as decreasing obesity, heart disease and cancer.

    No I’m not, and yes they’d but it would cause many health problems and their choice is incorrect.
    I say that’s solving a problem by another mistake = double problem = urge to a hero = born of a genius.
    So like life.
    Imagine this is the best thing you've ever read.

  10. #260
    noʎ ɟo ǝʇnɔ ʍoH Mademoiselle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    No I'm not sure you are fully informed or have entirely thought this through, and I recommend documentaries such as Food Inc and Forks Over Knives, as well as doing a lot of reading on the more global consequences of factory farming and excessive meat consumption, versus immediate gratification.

    As my ENTJ friend said last night, how can so many people be so stupid and so blind. It's lack of information, it's a kind of stuffy adherence to tradition more than anything, rather than overt cruelty or actual stupidity. Habit is powerful, and so are our basest instincts that really only fully serve us in times of want.

    That is not related with the relation of “Cause and effect”
    However, you’re ENTJ friend is right at the part: how can people be so blind?
    But correction: to chose which way to rely on is case by case bro
    Tradition or Modern
    Blue or Red
    Is choices which are right for some cases and wrong for some other cases.
    This is very basic, people are blind.
    Imagine this is the best thing you've ever read.

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