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Thread: Vegetarianism

  1. #121
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    Yeah, so, it's not even worth it to hassle individuals about what they eat - we're talking mega corporations here. Not sure what it would take, but political action would be more productive than random folks giving up their Sunday pot roast or whatever. I guess this is another reason I don't tackle it more diligently in my own life -- I don't feel it matters enough to the ultimate goal whether I do or not, and I don't have any health reason not to.

    Oops. I just took it back to PETA.

  2. #122
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post
    I wonder how much the fast food industry has to do with it. I wonder what the effect would be if 95 percent of the fast food shops shut down. Seems to me that's where this megaton of meet is going, rather than to the grocery stores. It would be more efficient to shut down the fast food industry than it would for random people here and there to go vegan/vegetarian/pescatarian.
    People forget that "unhealthy" food is why civilization exists. "Preservatives" and "processed food" are why people didn't die so quickly when food was scarce.

    Then we end up with nutrition fads that sound so completely scientific, it takes decades to realize they were completely wrong: http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/...trending_now_2

    I'm not arguing that fast food is good for you. I am arguing that it's why the chief nutrition problem among the poor in the US isn't going hungry, but being overweight. That people's diets are often unhealthy is truly a first-world problem, one where the problem isn't "having enough food", but just "eating the right kinds of food."
    An argument is two people sharing their ignorance.

    A discussion is two people sharing their understanding, even when they disagree.

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post
    I wonder how much the fast food industry has to do with it. I wonder what the effect would be if 95 percent of the fast food shops shut down. Seems to me that's where this megaton of meet is going, rather than to the grocery stores. It would be more efficient to shut down the fast food industry than it would for random people here and there to go vegan/vegetarian/pescatarian.
    Perhaps it would be better, but the environmental aspect of the terrible meat industry would still exist. Vegan would keep on being optimal as the population unfortunately grows. What you're saying just sounds like an excuse to keep on eating meat.

  4. #124
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    i think its impossible for some people to be vegetarians.

  5. #125
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noll View Post
    Perhaps it would be better, but the environmental aspect of the terrible meat industry would still exist. Vegan would keep on being optimal as the population unfortunately grows. What you're saying just sounds like an excuse to keep on eating meat.
    I'm an adult, free to make my own choices. I don't need an excuse. It just seems to me that factory farming is perhaps largely necessary because of the demand made by fast food chains.

  6. #126
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post
    I'm an adult, free to make my own choices. I don't need an excuse. It just seems to me that factory farming is perhaps largely necessary because of the demand made by fast food chains 300 million people (in the US).
    Fixed that for you.

    How do you feed 300 million without factory farming? Easy: most of us quit our jobs and go back to manual farming. That's how things worked before the industrial revolution.
    An argument is two people sharing their ignorance.

    A discussion is two people sharing their understanding, even when they disagree.

  7. #127
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    I don't know about all that, Mr. Fancy Dancer. The corporations could just spread things out rather than concentrate so much production in one spot - give the animals more room, institute some more comfortable ways of doing things? (I don't object to raising animals and eating them - I object to making their brief lives miserable, just to make my position clear.) It might raise the price of meat, but that's ok, too, right?

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    And you want to deny a lifetime of happiness (and one bad day) to properly raised pastured animals that wouldn't exist, but for the demand for their meat.



    Ok, maybe less than a lifetime for the lambs.
    funny, i usually make that very argument :p

    i think suffering and wellbeing are relative terms to the spectrum of what one experiences and knows: comparing even within humans - between different societies economical classes and time periods - what might seem not worth living for one is the blissful achievement of a content life for another. even within a human time frame your spectrum is going to adapt to new extremes of high and low. its reasonable this relativity would be even easier to maintain for mammals who lack the social consciousness required for envy or the imagination to compare their lifestyle to mental simulations of ideals. as far as they are concerned, their short life in captivity is likely to be a life worth living rather then never being born.

    as far as sustainability, it is but not without a huge toll on pollution - we so far have being able to avoid the malthusian catastrophe, and we'd be likely to push it further:
    china & france and a few other countries are buying workable land to convert to farmland in africa, GM crops are both increasing yields and improving potential growth areas, innovations in hydroponics and potentially vertical farms are on the rise, better synthetic meat getting mixed as larger filler in minced meat (though steak might take awhile)... this doesn't mean their won't be fluctuations in food prices, but we generally have many directions to push threw.

    ...the pollution we'd cause in the mean time, that's another story.

  9. #129
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    Fixed that for you.

    How do you feed 300 million without factory farming? Easy: most of us quit our jobs and go back to manual farming. That's how things worked before the industrial revolution.
    Kill 2 million of them
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  10. #130
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    Haha, that's what wars are for!

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