10-07-2016, 05:54 PM #3271
10-07-2016, 05:59 PM #3272
I'm not sure what the rest of your post means. I don't think religion is anything like learning to swim, nor is it necessary for a healthy and happy life. I'm not sure what your reinventing the wheel statement means exactly either.
In my opinion, to be religious or not should be a conscious choice made by someone who isn't trained from a young age what to believe (or not believe). And religion, just like other socialization (gender roles, traditions etc) are very much learned rather than inherent. I don't mean that in a bad way. I don't judge people who are religious for being religious. I do judge people who drag unwilling children to church every Sunday and scold them if they question the faith.
10-07-2016, 06:01 PM #3273
Answering those questions is inherently challenging because it's really the whole purpose of life. The value of religion is providing a distillation of the answers that thousands of years of humanity have arrived at. Rather than having to start from scratch and essentially reinvent the wheel, faith gives you a way to approach those questions or at least a jumping off point on how to do so.
I can't speak for other traditions, but at least in the Church. You're supposed to evolve the understanding of your faith over the years. Yeah, you'll teach a 5 year old very black/white, you do this you'll go to Hell, you do that you go to Heaven type things. But that's not the same discussion that someone should be having at 25 or even 55. I think a lot of what gets misunderstood about faith is what Patton Oswald very famously described as "sky cake":
Most people hear the "sky cake" version of theology and some people stop there because it's all they really need. But any well reasoned person is going to know that sky cake is bullshit and you'd have to be a dumbass to think that a cake that exists in a sky is actually a thing. Usually what you find out with study is that sky cake is a version of a version of a version of a 1000 page opus written by some guy in Spain 500 years ago that's been watered down to a catchphrase.
To me, sky cake people are troublesome because they basically just sit their own prejudices on top of the cake and are loudly parading around calling themselves religious when really they're just assholes.
Do you have a better understanding of what @Lark was getting at now? And Lark--feel free to correct me if I misunderstood your point.
10-07-2016, 06:13 PM #3274
10-07-2016, 06:18 PM #3275Perfectly robust chickens
Run laps a lot
Pee on the garden
Leap over fences
Cock is a word for rooster
Hen is a type of chicken?
Kit kats are good
Nice chickens don't belong in the
10-07-2016, 06:18 PM #3276
I do think it's important to explore those questions. Though what I'm really getting it isn't against religion as a tool/use for exploring that, but that it shouldn't be shoved down someone's throat. If we want to prepare children to answer those questions, I think it would be more ethical to either teach them about multiple religions while not forcing them to adhere to any of them if they don't wish, or just start them off with some basic philosophy and let them come to their own answers. My problem isn't with religion as a tool, but parents who have a kid and say "Oh we're Christians so our kid's going to be Christian too and I'm not going to accept otherwise"--that, to me, is brainwashing. The sky cake thing was interesting too, but also less of what I meant. :p
10-07-2016, 06:27 PM #3277
I'm totally with that then. I had some fundie friends growing up who were terrifying to me. They were Creationist and pretty retrograde on a lot of other things as well. They went to one of those ultra-rich megachurches and the youth programing was basically designed to center their entire social life around their church and the church culture. They had this million dollar A/V system and would sponsor massive weekend-long Halo tournaments for Jesus. I shit you not. Some of my other friends went one time, but the tourney rounds would be punctuated with the youth pastor giving these long speeches about the importance of chastity and how they should all feel sorry for the people who'd never accept Jesus into their lives. Then they'd all laugh at the Devil as a group.
My non-Fundie friends never went back after that
10-07-2016, 06:33 PM #3278
10-08-2016, 01:31 AM #3279
Took me three months of supervising my INFJ supervisee to learn that she's older than me. O_O
I've been operating with the wrong internal hierarchy this whole time.
This is so confusing. I don't know how to feel.
10-08-2016, 02:47 PM #3280
Also, I dont think that there is anything wrong with socialisation, religion or anything else, and I've got a strong belief that there are innate understandings and drives, no one is tabala rasa, and religion is one such, good or bad, enduring response to that and means of channeling it.
There's lots of private "religions", ie belief systems with rituals, habits, sanctions, norms, mores etc. whether people choose to acknowledge that or not as the same, if its a word they have a phobia about or issue, then alright, dont use that word, its not a matter of semantics and that just complicates life because its the exact same thing. When you choose to raise a child secularist and atheist or agnostic, that's what you're doing, you're not raising someone free until some times and they can take the responsibility for a decision you're wary about yourself, you're raising them irreligious and you're as much violating their choices in the first place by doing so.
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