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  1. #81
    royal member Rasofy's Avatar
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    I bet Dawkins doesn't do that on dating websites though.

  2. #82
    Senior Member zago's Avatar
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    .. and I'm no stranger to people complaining. I was a high school science teacher. Constantly kids complain, "why do we have to learn this stuff?" Whether or not I agreed with their complaints, I always encouraged them to take them to higher levels, to talk to the principal or write to a government official. There is value in people's voices, how they feel, what they have to say. They should be heard and not shushed. Rational counter arguments I am fine with, but not shut up and deal with it.

  3. #83

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    Quote Originally Posted by zago View Post
    Scare tactics? Really?

    It is what it is, everybody. You can't polish a turd. If society is full of jerks, it's full of jerks. My trying to meet them on their level will not change the bitterness of life. I have swallowed this pill. I am living in reality. That's why I promote change, and I believe in it too. And I feel better than ever. That doesn't mean everything is peachy, though. Just callin' it as I see it.

    "The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who don't have it". - George Bernard Shaw
    You know you're mostly right, society is full of people...well let's say not willing to really think and do something with their lives (jerks). Don't try to meet them, why would you want to be a part of something you don't like, it will only make you feel more cynical and bitter.
    The only accurate observation is cynicism, but at least it helps us to look with eyes on the right places.

  4. #84
    Senior Member zago's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasofy View Post
    I bet Dawkins doesn't do that on dating websites though.
    Your point?

  5. #85
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Wow, it took 9 pages to get to a moral imperative stance. Things have gotten tamer around here in the last 5 years.

    Well, I can say that even though I understand where you are coming from, Zago, I feel you are missing the big picture for your own life. I hope that you gain more utility from being right and correcting others than you lose by distancing yourself. If you find yourself writing another post about bitterness and being cynical, however, I hope you will remember what others have said. Believe it or not now, it comes from you, not the world.

  6. #86
    Senior Member zago's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SophiaDeep View Post
    You know you're mostly right, society is full of people...well let's say not willing to really think and do something with their lives (jerks). Don't try to meet them, why would you want to be a part of something you don't like, it will only make you feel more cynical and bitter.
    The only accurate observation is cynicism, but at least it helps us to look with eyes on the right places.
    I have indeed extracted myself from mainstream society - it literally drove me insane. I quit teaching mid-year, with almost 0 warning. I was in such a deep depression I spent the next several months in bed. After that, I made 1 final push to fit in, and failed at it. These days I rarely see anyone, I spend my time reading and learning, and it keeps my mind occupied on pleasant things. I will run out of money to keep doing this eventually though, and then I don't know what I'll do. Hopefully I'll come up with something by then. I have found the value of filtering people and do believe that "the right people are out there" but it just isn't most of them. They are very hard to find. I appreciate many people here at this forum for the most part, so I spend time here. Still, I've got more honing to do. Wish me luck.

  7. #87
    Senior Member zago's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    Wow, it took 9 pages to get to a moral imperative stance. Things have gotten tamer around here in the last 5 years.

    Well, I can say that even though I understand where you are coming from, Zago, I feel you are missing the big picture for your own life. I hope that you gain more utility from being right and correcting others than you lose by distancing yourself. If you find yourself writing another post about bitterness and being cynical, however, I hope you will remember what others have said. Believe it or not now, it comes from you, not the world.
    ptgatsby, what do you see when you look at the world? Do you see sanity?

    Like, I was raised going to church. Turns out all along, the problem wasn't me, it was them. For a good 25 years I blamed myself.

    Your belief is common. People hate to think that they live in a cruel world, they desperately believe that it is up to them to change, as it is the only idea that gives them the feeling of control. But we do - we live in a stupid, cruel world. There are pockets that are nice, and I would like to find and help inflate those pockets. But look around and you will see small minds and petty fools. Everywhere.

  8. #88
    Senior Member zago's Avatar
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    Let's see what gets more viewers - the superbowl, or the next major event in space exploration.

    We live in Brave New World, my friends. Welcome.

  9. #89
    royal member Rasofy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zago View Post
    Your point?
    When in Rome, do as the Romans do.

    Dawkins was discussing questions of the highest magnitude (how did we get here/where we are going to), and he was debating with a person that agreed to do it, in a proper setting.

    You were on a dating website, where guys are expected to initiate conversations with women they fancy and see what happens, doing exactly the opposite: initiating conversations with women you seem to find intellectually unworthy to correct their answer on a question with zero relevance to their lives.

  10. #90
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zago View Post
    Your belief is common. People hate to think that they live in a cruel world, they desperately believe that it is up to them to change, as it is the only idea that gives them the feeling of control. But we do - we live in a stupid, cruel world. There are pockets that are nice, and I would like to find and help inflate those pockets. But look around and you will see small minds and petty fools. Everywhere.
    I'm the wrong person to be associating with those issues, fwiw.

    You have to understand, your belief is also common. I've talked it out with (?) dozens of disillusioned 20-somethings. I don't want to marginalize you, and have done my best not to, but it's a phase. When you come out of it, you'll either keep all the negativity you have as you move into a different mindset, or you will discard it and move on. I am hoping that you can move on before it becomes entrenched.

    I'm genuinely trying to convey something I believe will help you in the long run. It's not that different than what you are trying to do for others. The only real difference is that I'm not cynical and bitter about it. Not that I convey empathy well online, I know, I've heard it many times

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