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  1. #51
    Senior Member zago's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Is the "you" here addressed to me?

    And if so, why? I made an impersonal compliment to explain why someone on that site might be bothered by your approach, so I'm not sure why you're directly criticizing me (if you are) and making this personal.

    My personal feelings about what you're doing have no relevance here, so I'm simply addressing how people typically respond to your style of posting.
    I felt that you didn't recognize my intentions for sending that message - that you reduced it to the level of grammar Nazism. You were only focused on how it came off with regard to the standard of normal and not looking at it without that filter. Just trying to get my point across.

    If you are happy with what you're doing and can live with the results, by all means continue. But you seem to be unhappy with the results, and simultaneously irked that the people in question have different rules than you do.
    Well, people should be more accepting and open minded. That's something that can be learned. I wouldn't suggest to an effeminate gay person that he shouldn't feel bad about being openly rejected by the more ignorant members of society. It's not just that those people have different rules, it's that they are ignorant. If they would actually listen, they would see that there is more to people than surface features. The least others can do is steer clear of those they don't want to associate with and let them be. I don't see the reason for the extra condemnation.

    I feel the same way about many different interactions of this nature. For instance, I don't like the way people treat criminals and call them "sick fucks" or "pieces of shit" or whatever. It isn't fair to do that. I am lucky to have never had the urge to kill someone or touch kids or whatever. It's ignorant of me to go out of my way to condemn those people and make them feel extra shame. I absolutely think they need to be removed from society and prevented from violating others, but what good does shaming them do?

    Well, as I said, your approach is like a slap in the face for most people. Sorry that people can't accept your approach, but the reality is that the response you got pretty seems par for the course, it doesn't surprise me. And now you're lonely. Well, sorry that people don't play by your rules. If you want them to respect you and your approach, then you have to accept that they might have a different approach as well.

    I've found I typically don't get to have my cake and eat it too, I have to make hard choices about how much compromise I can live with in order to make a connection.
    It didn't surprise me either. Like I said, I thought maybe 1% chance I would get even a neutral reply, but I had to listen to that 1% because that 1% is the only percent that means anything to me.

    There is no need to be fatalistic, though. I see no point to social interaction at all if it isn't based on expansion and new perspectives. I made this thread because it is something I want people to know about. I figure maybe if something like that happens to them they'll think about it. What else would be the point of us talking right now? I'm here to learn, to broaden myself. Aren't we all? Aren't the great folks among us the ones who didn't simply accept the shitty way they were treated, who stood up and spoke out?

  2. #52
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zago View Post
    I felt that you didn't recognize my intentions for sending that message - that you reduced it to the level of grammar Nazism. You were only focused on how it came off with regard to the standard of normal and not looking at it without that filter. Just trying to get my point across.
    Wow. Seriously.

    Do you understand that this could be part of the problem? The rules you play by are rules that very few other people seem to share. This will create problems for you, regardless of who you think should change.

    Well, people should be more accepting and open minded. That's something that can be learned. I wouldn't suggest to an effeminate gay person that he shouldn't feel bad about being openly rejected by the more ignorant members of society. It's not just that those people have different rules, it's that they are ignorant. If they would actually listen, they would see that there is more to people than surface features. The least others can do is steer clear of those they don't want to associate with and let them be. I don't see the reason for the extra condemnation.
    Well, here, I'll hit the ball back to you: Why should everyone else always be the one to change? You are human, they are human, you all can work together.

    In your message, you seriously came across as someone who would demand but not give. It's not a good investment to flex to a stranger who takes the approach you did. You can correct someone's grammar in a better context and worded more considerately, in a way that is more likely to get a more "open" response back.


    I feel the same way about many different interactions of this nature. For instance, I don't like the way people treat criminals and call them "sick fucks" or "pieces of shit" or whatever. It isn't fair to do that. I am lucky to have never had the urge to kill someone or touch kids or whatever. It's ignorant of me to go out of my way to condemn those people and make them feel extra shame. I absolutely think they need to be removed from society and prevented from violating others, but what good does shaming them do?
    I agree with you there. I've had a lot of issues with the way society treats people who have served their time, or people who want to get better but have been stuck with desires they never asked for. I remember watching this one special about this child molester who got out of jail and was trying to rebuild his life, but pretty much he was ostracized from society and lived on a trailer far out in the middle of nowhere because no one would have him around. As a parent, I understand how people are concerned about their kids; at the same time, I wish there were a better solution and I've also seen and heard how people badmouth/shame others even when their intent is to be productive members of society. That pisses me off.


    There is no need to be fatalistic, though. I see no point to social interaction at all if it isn't based on expansion and new perspectives. I made this thread because it is something I want people to know about. I figure maybe if something like that happens to them they'll think about it. What else would be the point of us talking right now? I'm here to learn, to broaden myself. Aren't we all? Aren't the great folks among us the ones who didn't simply accept the shitty way they were treated, who stood up and spoke out?
    I value the same thing, but I kind of feel like you're all over the place. I don't think the response you got from this woman is necessarily the same topic as this last paragraph, for example. You can value the latter while still approaching someone in a way that shows some respect. I mean, you kind of blindsided her on a throwaway nuance of a word she misused and contributed very little else. She's looking to make a connection, your opening gambit presented you as someone who would be abrasive and not a good investment when she has many options to choose from.

    Maybe if you shared the broad values you have been sharing here, people could find some common ground. ANd there are ways to address a grammar mistake that aren't nearly so blunt. Was your goal to show you were right and just be yourself, or did you actually want to connect? Connection is a two-way street -- you're finding common ground that satisfies you AND her. You can share your broader values that mean something to you, and maybe others share those.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  3. #53
    Senior Member zago's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Wow. Seriously.

    Do you understand that this could be part of the problem? The rules you play by are rules that very few other people seem to share. This will create problems for you, regardless of who you think should change.
    Problems are a fact of life. As we know it right now, anyway. There is no way I could possibly act in which there won't be problems. Even if I try to conform perfectly to society in such a way that everyone will love me optimally, which I have done by the way, it will be just as much of a strain, but actually more. And it really doesn't benefit anyone, either. There's other people out there like me who love knowledge more than most and communicate in a fashion similar to me. When I speak for myself I speak for them too.

    Well, here, I'll hit the ball back to you: Why should everyone else always be the one to change? You are human, they are human, you all can work together.
    Because there is a right and a wrong. The one who is wrong is the one who should change. If people think it is offensive for me to tell them that their interpretation of Romeo and Juliet is false, they are plainly wrong about my intentions. I was not being spiteful, and I am not some fuck-up or lowly subhuman who deserves to be condemned. I realize there is utterly no awareness of what I am saying in society, but you need to look past that. The same thing can be applied to any group who has had to fight for recognition.

    By the way, let's not forget that my OP mentioned that this message was meant to have a slightly ironic tone to it, and that the recipient merely needed a sense of humor to understand that.

    In your message, you seriously came across as someone who would demand but not give. It's not a good investment to flex to a stranger who takes the approach you did. You can correct someone's grammar in a better context and worded more considerately, in a way that is more likely to get a more "open" response back.
    The investment wasn't big on either end, as I've said. If a conversation can start from a message like that, great, it's the kind of conversation I want to have. If it can't, oh well. I don't see why everyone is trying to tell me I should have worked harder to cajole this person into responding. If the chemistry isn't there, I'm not hell-bent on forcing it. I actually disdain men who try too hard to please women, and I feel women probably do too from what I've seen.

    I agree with you there. I've had a lot of issues with the way society treats people who have served their time, or people who want to get better but have been stuck with desires they never asked for. I remember watching this one special about this child molester who got out of jail and was trying to rebuild his life, but pretty much he was ostracized from society and lived on a trailer far out in the middle of nowhere because no one would have him around. As a parent, I understand how people are concerned about their kids; at the same time, I wish there were a better solution and I've also seen and heard how people badmouth/shame others even when their intent is to be productive members of society. That pisses me off.
    Yes, I think it does just throw gas on the fire. A lot of the time what people need to be successful is support. When they lack that support and feel like their positive efforts don't get them anywhere with people, they revert to their old ways and fall back on their vices.

    I value the same thing, but I kind of feel like you're all over the place. I don't think the response you got from this woman is necessarily the same topic as this last paragraph, for example. You can value the latter while still approaching someone in a way that shows some respect. I mean, you kind of blindsided her on a throwaway nuance of a word she misused and contributed very little else. She's looking to make a connection, your opening gambit presented you as someone who would be abrasive and not a good investment when she has many options to choose from.
    Then what we value is different. I see nothing wrong with that. However, at least in my message to her I didn't say "tsk tsk" "smh" or "you must be uneducated to have answered a question wrong like that."

    I get that people don't understand that there are people like me. But there are. I'm here to say!

    Maybe if you shared the broad values you have been sharing here, people could find some common ground. ANd there are ways to address a grammar mistake that aren't nearly so blunt. Was your goal to show you were right and just be yourself, or did you actually want to connect? Connection is a two-way street -- you're finding common ground that satisfies you AND her. You can share your broader values that mean something to you, and maybe others share those.
    Connection to me involves talking in that kind of manner. There are people with whom I can talk to like that, and that's pretty much how I want to be talked to as well. I have a spartan approach to communication. Less frivolity, more exchange of ideas. That's as valid a preference as any, IMO. If someone doesn't click with it, we both move on.

  4. #54
    A Gentle Whisper ~MS*ANGEL~'s Avatar
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    @zago Sometimes I think you don't realize how much your words can hurt others, however right you may be at times.
    Only she who attempts the absurd can achieve the impossible... and then some.

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  5. #55
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    I don't see a question here. Are you looking for feedback, suggestions, or even a dialog; or are you simply trying to tell us a story or explain your point of view?

  6. #56
    Senior Member zago's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AngelLight2012 View Post
    @zago Sometimes I think you don't realize how much your words can hurt others, however right you may be at times.
    I figure if you buy the ticket, you take the ride. Answering a question about Romeo and Juliet, setting it at "mandatory" and getting it wrong is fair game for correction.

    But maybe that's true. I'm kind of soulless I guess. I see things in terms of literally right and wrong, not people's feelings. Accuracy and the truth is of great concern to me and I feel this world (and myself) desperately needs more of it. But nonetheless it's a good thing everyone is not like me.

    I am what you would call an extreme INTP, near 100% on all 4 letters. That could definitely make me a cold and abrasive person, but I still do have a soft, bunny loving side. lol.

  7. #57
    Senior Member zago's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by garbage View Post
    I don't see a question here. Are you looking for feedback, suggestions, or even a dialog; or are you simply trying to tell us a story or explain your point of view?
    The latter. I thought it was entertaining and I felt like it also made a point. I didn't think about anything after that, like what kind of discussion would come about. I don't think I want suggestions or anything.

  8. #58
    Senior Member tinker683's Avatar
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    Fe-inferiors are so much fun to watch when it comes to social situations

    OP, while technically you were correct, your timing for such a thing was terrible. She probably thought you were acting like a dick and I'm inclinded to agree with her. People don't subscribe to dating sites to have some know-it-all twat correct them (even if they the person being corrected is indeed wrong), they go to dating sites to find a romantic partner, someone to have a friendly chat with, or someone they can boff. No more, no less

    You were correct...but you chose the wrong place to engage this battle. Pick your battles, sir Rabbit, and you may yet come out on top
    "The man who is swimming against the stream knows the strength of it."
    ― Woodrow Wilson

  9. #59
    Senior Member zago's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinker683 View Post
    Fe-inferiors are so much fun to watch when it comes to social situations

    OP, while technically you were correct, your timing for such a thing was terrible. She probably thought you were acting like a dick and I'm inclinded to agree with her. People don't subscribe to dating sites to have some know-it-all twat correct them (even if they the person being corrected is indeed wrong), they go to dating sites to find a romantic partner, someone to have a friendly chat with, or someone they can boff. No more, no less

    You were correct...but you chose the wrong place to engage this battle. Pick your battles, sir Rabbit, and you may yet come out on top
    So you have called me a dick and a twat in this post. Who has poor social skills, me or you? Your smileys don't fool me. You're getting very close to my line in the sand.

  10. #60
    Senior Member tinker683's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zago View Post
    So you have called me a dick and a twat in this post. Who has poor social skills, me or you? Your smileys don't fool me. You're getting very close to my line in the sand.
    I will desperately try to care.

    Also, whats interesting to me: You get upset when the girl reacts badly to your attempts at educating her and feel the need to come stomping over here and gripe about it, and yet you seem to be reacting the same way to MY attempts at educating YOU!

    How do you not see this??
    "The man who is swimming against the stream knows the strength of it."
    ― Woodrow Wilson

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