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Thread: Refusing Tips

  1. #31
    Mud and rain and chaos... Array TickTock's Avatar
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    Jan 2008


    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    Can you actually know that, I wonder. Is the system still so new that you can make a comparison?

    If such services are to live on, as I imagine they will for quite some time, then there are two alternatives: either the worker are paid what they deserves (a low to average income), or they get what they deserve though a combination of pay and tips. I cast my vote by refusing to tip. My decision is akin to that of vegetarians who refuse to eat meat, knowing that their contribution to ending the mass slaughter of cattle is mostly symbolic in nature.

    Good service should be the standard, as good work should be the standard in all fields. No tips for that. If, on the other hand, a waiter were to go out of his way to give my a blowjob on top of a good meal, I would consider that extraordinary service, and tip accordingly.
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  2. #32


    Quote Originally Posted by TickTock View Post
    Yes I understand. I was referring to you saying that you would prefer the system was different. I would point out though that the economy in Australia is a lot better than in America. I know people that have moved out there and done fairly mundane jobs and managed to save a substantial amount of money.
    Well, I prefer the system would be different because it would eliminate unnecessary complication and angst. Wait staff would receive a guaranteed wage and patrons would not be put in the position of having to determine a tip.

    I'm not sure the relative strength of the Australian economy is a factor, because the salary of the employee and the cost of the meal would be roughly the same under each system (provided one has been tipping the standard amount under the current American system). The difference would be made up in the cost of the meal as stated on the menu.

    I get that there would be concerns of poor service without the incentive of the tip, and on its face, that makes some sense. However, when I've eaten out in non-tipping cultures I haven't experienced poor service. In fact, I often find the "extra" service that American wait staff give in order to secure a generous tip to be invasive and annoying.
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  3. #33


    Bonuses have a way of becoming customs and expectations. The whole system gets adjusted so that these things become part of the norm, and that causes problems when it creates social "red tape." That essentially erases those bonuses, or make it so that nobody knows what the hell to do anymore.

    In the good ol' US,
    An employer of a tipped employee is only required to pay $2.13 an hour in direct wages if that amount plus the tips received equals at least the federal minimum wage, the employee retains all tips and the employee customarily and regularly receives more than $30 a month in tips. If an employee's tips combined with the employer's direct wages of at least $2.13 an hour do not equal the federal minimum hourly wage, the employer must make up the difference.
    Here, we screw with wages because tipping is expected.

    But, hell, you want to see some complexity of giving and refusing tips? See taaroff.
    Taarof is a verbal dance between an offerer and an acceptor until one of them agrees. It is a cultural phenomenon that consists of refusing something that has been offered to you even though you want it, out of politeness. On the giving end, it is offering something that may cost a lot in order to be polite, but not really wanting to give it away for free.
    At times, not doing tarof can be considered very rude and almost offensive. For example, If one offers a present that you already have, telling the truth would be very rude. Likewise, if someone offers to take you for dinner, you must refuse at first, professing their great kindness. This is normally be two to three times, but one must be careful not to do it in excess, and to always end in a yes, so as to avoid offence. It is not expected of young children to tarof, but most Iranian children over the age of ten are aware of, and engage in, the custom.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard View Post
    I hate the concept of tipping. It drives me nuts and I wish I lived in a culture where it wasn't expected. The thing about it that drives me nuts is there is no consistency, and it is left to the interpretation of the individual(s) to determine what something is worth. This can lead to some being paid too much or too little. Both aren't fair. It's a social rule that just makes me very uncomfortable.
    In general I despise the complexity of money. I want it to be SIMPLE as possible, and tipping goes in the other direction of that.
    This. For me, this also extends to wanting to simply save up for retirement out of my own savings rather than partake in 401k's and the like. I kinda reluctantly accept that that's the way things are.

    Also--what's up with tipping calculators? I will never understand those. Just estimate, dudes

  4. #34


    Quote Originally Posted by garbage View Post

    But, hell, you want to see some complexity of giving and refusing tips? See taaroff.



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