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  1. #21
    Doesn't Read Your Posts Haight's Avatar
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    <----- Natural born leader (the one on the left).
    "The only time I'm wrong is when I'm questioning myself."
    Haight

  2. #22
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaqcues Le Paul View Post
    Define lead for the purpose of this thread,

    Are we talking about being the head of a group or someone just in charge of a situation?

    What about just manipulating, directing and moving resources towards a goal?

    Wouldn't that be leading in a way?
    A question I suspected someone would ask. Well as you have identified, there are many different criteria and versions of being a leader.

    After all I did not mention the quality of that leadership.

    I personally tend to define it most commonly as the person with the most assertiveness and knowledge in a given contextual arena. Generally if someone is taking charge they are doing so from a position of self confidence and certainty, although there are many people who are mistaken about their own abilities in this sense.

    However there is behind the scenes style leading, which tends to get less attention and credit that it deserves. And the directing, manipulation of resources to a goal is an interesting idea and one that I had thought about.

    But it depends on where that goal lies. If I were a leader, (and thankfully I am not since I do not fare well in the responsibility of others), I would consider it my role to...first and foremost, make sure I was being responsible for those I was leading.

    If my goal was to serve my own personal purposes, it could hardly be called leading...since I am only really leading myself while using others like tools, although as a disguise it looks like leading on the surface. I would say I see it more as part directing and part inspiring.

    However my rather weak and anti-conflict nature renders me an ineffectual choice for the directing or inspiring of others. Respect tends to come into this a lot as well and I am usually in short supply in my social circles. This is of course my own fault and doing, so I rarely begrudge others that lack of respect.

    It's just I cannot bring myself to kow-tow entirely to others expectations of me, no matter how socially self-conscious I am. Maybe this is petulant like a child...I'm not sure.

    What I am sure of though is that it is in my nature to question what I see around me, perhaps not in an intellectually or particularly insightful manner, but like a bad smell, once it is sensed you can never become unaware of it and with that comes the doubt about the structure of what you think you know.

    This makes me wary of the certain and the overly confident, although this often is unfair to those who do doubt but consider those angles of a negative nature and still progress beyond them in confidence. Those individuals I respect greatly, I do not however reserve much respect for so called leaders who bully their way through life on a wave of confidence built on group affirmation, ignorance and the ability to avoid asking important self-aware questions until it is too late and their self-serving choices stack against them...then the barrier breaks and they are forced to confront themselves.

    Thanks for the replies people, it's been really interesting and insightful to read.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  3. #23
    Artisan Conquerer Halla74's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I agree with that, the problem is that there's a lot of people who dont want to lead and arent exactly content with following either. In my experience anyway, they've even been given the opportunity to lead and disliked that role enough not to step into it again but man will they criticise and make merry hell with anyone else who does.
    Don't let the peanut gallery bring you down.
    Those who lack the wherewithal to commit and make themselves accountable to endeavors of purpose find solace in criticizing those who do.
    It's easy to be a critic, anyone can do that, any one can talk shit.
    It's a hell of a lot harder to build, create, transform, and accomplish things than it is to criticize those who do.
    So, it's up to the leader to decide how to address such people, if at all.
    The reality is, the world is changing and moving forward with each passing moment.
    It is each person's duty to decide what place they wish to have in the future, and talk is cheap.



    -Halla74
    --------------------
    Type Stats:
    MBTI -> (E) 77.14% | (i) 22.86% ; (S) 60% | (n) 40% ; (T) 72.22% | (f) 27.78% ; (P) 51.43% | (j) 48.57%
    BIG 5 -> Extroversion 77% ; Accommodation 60% ; Orderliness 62% ; Emotional Stability 64% ; Open Mindedness 74%

    Quotes:
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    "Enneagram is psychological underpinnings. Cognitive Functions are mental reasoning and perceptional processes. -Sanjuro

  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Halla74 View Post
    Don't let the peanut gallery bring you down.
    Those who lack the wherewithal to commit and make themselves accountable to endeavors of purpose find solace in criticizing those who do.
    It's easy to be a critic, anyone can do that, any one can talk shit.
    It's a hell of a lot harder to build, create, transform, and accomplish things than it is to criticize those who do.
    So, it's up to the leader to decide how to address such people, if at all.
    The reality is, the world is changing and moving forward with each passing moment.
    It is each person's duty to decide what place they wish to have in the future, and talk is cheap.



    -Halla74
    I've been dismissed as "you have a bit of charisma" or "you are a charismatic guy", the implication being that its all noise and no substance.

    There's a lot of toxic bastards out there who're like crabs in a barrel, the minute one seems to be making a move out the others pull it back in.

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Halla74 View Post
    Don't let the peanut gallery bring you down.
    Those who lack the wherewithal to commit and make themselves accountable to endeavors of purpose find solace in criticizing those who do.
    It's easy to be a critic, anyone can do that, any one can talk shit.
    It's a hell of a lot harder to build, create, transform, and accomplish things than it is to criticize those who do.
    So, it's up to the leader to decide how to address such people, if at all.
    The reality is, the world is changing and moving forward with each passing moment.
    It is each person's duty to decide what place they wish to have in the future, and talk is cheap.



    -Halla74
    I've been dismissed as "you have a bit of charisma" or "you are a charismatic guy", the implication being that its all noise and no substance.

    There's a lot of toxic bastards out there who're like crabs in a barrel, the minute one seems to be making a move out the others pull it back in.

  6. #26
    girl with a pretty smile Honor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halla74 View Post
    Don't let the peanut gallery bring you down.
    Those who lack the wherewithal to commit and make themselves accountable to endeavors of purpose find solace in criticizing those who do.
    It's easy to be a critic, anyone can do that, any one can talk shit.
    It's a hell of a lot harder to build, create, transform, and accomplish things than it is to criticize those who do.
    So, it's up to the leader to decide how to address such people, if at all.
    The reality is, the world is changing and moving forward with each passing moment.
    It is each person's duty to decide what place they wish to have in the future, and talk is cheap.



    -Halla74
    You're right, Halla
    RobertCalifornia: TL thinks im black
    RobertCalifornia: shes my homegurl
    Hive: arent you
    SpankyMcfly: wait... you arent?

    thoughtlost: I am not really religious. I just like getting free stuff from churches.

  7. #27
    likes this gromit's Avatar
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    Yeah I probably could.

    A had a good friend tell me that leadership is one of my strengths, which surprised me. So I guess I need to consider that a bit.
    Your kisses, sweeter than honey. But guess what, so is my money.

  8. #28
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    I'm okay in both roles. I think I am a leader, but a very specific type and not the most common type.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

    I want to be just like my mother, even if she is bat-shit crazy.

  9. #29
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    I like leading. It's not something I expected to come naturally to me and was surprised to find that it does. I just tend to assume responsibility, and turns out that people look to those who assume responsibility. Being a rampant information-gatherer also seems to inherently attract people.

    If I'm given the choice I prefer a position that carries some extra responsibility but not the very top.

    I love giving 110% at work, but I also cherish being able to go home to my SO and my family.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halla74 View Post
    Don't let the peanut gallery bring you down.
    Those who lack the wherewithal to commit and make themselves accountable to endeavors of purpose find solace in criticizing those who do.
    It's easy to be a critic, anyone can do that, any one can talk shit.
    It's a hell of a lot harder to build, create, transform, and accomplish things than it is to criticize those who do.
    So, it's up to the leader to decide how to address such people, if at all.
    The reality is, the world is changing and moving forward with each passing moment.
    It is each person's duty to decide what place they wish to have in the future, and talk is cheap.



    -Halla74
    I agree very much with this post. The strong and tenacious actually have the will to create their own things and transform the world, work to make things change. Ideally, that's what a good leader should do. As you outlined, the moment we are in right now will shape the future that is to come. The real power is not only in the "wish", but also in the "will".

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