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  1. #11
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vasilisa View Post
    She is reading from part four of this: A List of "Men's Rights" Issues That Feminism Is Already Working On by Lindy West.

    I thought the OP was going to be more like this
    it takes a measure of objectivity to be able to separate content from presentation. The content was excellent, completely moral, and fair. The presentation was angry and shrill.

    Five gold stars for anyone clear enough in the mind to be able to hear the content of that video.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
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    I want to be just like my mother, even if she is bat-shit crazy.

  2. #12
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    I think it stands for Mens' Rights Activists. They are a difficult group to tolerate.

    The woman went into the lion's den. The main thing she needs to do is learn how to compose herself better if she is going to continue to do that. Taking an argument right up to where your opponents gather requires a lot of self-control, and with that she might seem more engaging.

    That being said, I have serious doubts that people attending such a meeting would give a self-proclaimed feminist a chance.
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  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by nicolita View Post
    No, she does not. I won't launch into a pro-feminism argument, but just like all other -isms, some people get wacky with it. And some of its supporters are probably pretty annoying or tactless just because there are lots of annoying or tactless people out there. It's important to separate the ideology itself from the people who claim it.
    ...or they're disgruntled assclowns who are deliberately obnoxious because it is the only way people will pay attention to them.

    The mission statement is just a means to rile lesser minds up.

  4. #14
    Entertaining Cracker five sounds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duck_of_Death View Post
    ...or they're disgruntled assclowns who are deliberately obnoxious because it is the only way people will pay attention to them.

    The mission statement is just a means to rile lesser minds up.
    Yep, there are lots of dirty ways to get people to listen to you. All groups have people who use them. Lesser minds may be won, and some lesser minds may not be able to see past the tactic to the core issues.

    The mission statement wasn't created by her, and was probably developed to create a unified direction for their organization. The other woman with her seemed rather uncomfortable with the whole tone of the interaction. She may have presented the statement in a much more diplomatic and respectable way if given the chance.
    You hem me in -- behind and before;
    you have laid your hand upon me.
    Such knowledge is too wonderful for me,
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  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by nicolita View Post
    Yep, there are lots of dirty ways to get people to listen to you. All groups have people who use them. Lesser minds may be won, and some lesser minds may not be able to see past the tactic to the core issues.

    The mission statement wasn't created by her, and was probably developed to create a unified direction for their organization. The other woman with her seemed rather uncomfortable with the whole tone of the interaction. She may have presented the statement in a much more diplomatic and respectable way if given the chance.
    It is ultimately irrelevant.

    This video was taken at the University of Toronto several months ago; it was during a peaceful egalitarian seminar which was interrupted by radical leftists (they stood outside the classroom, chanted above the speakers, toyed with the lights and eventually pulled the fire alarm). One of the issues discussed in the seminar was the increasing rates of young male suicide. When confronted with the marginalization of such in modern culture, the woman in the video (not shown here) sang "cry me a river".

    Still think she makes feminism look good? Of course you do.

    Then again, look who I'm talking to...

  6. #16
    Entertaining Cracker five sounds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nicolita View Post
    No, she does not.
    To the question of whether she makes feminism look good, I've only said no.

    That's actually the basis of my whole argument. They're representing feminism poorly, and that doesn't mean feminism is bad. The bad thing here is behavior, not what the speakers are claiming to represent.

    Are we in violent agreement?
    You hem me in -- behind and before;
    you have laid your hand upon me.
    Such knowledge is too wonderful for me,
    too lofty for me to attain.

  7. #17
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Sounding really "neutral" there DoA.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  8. #18
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    Took you 17 posts to show up.
    You're slacking.

  9. #19
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nicolita View Post
    Made it to 3 mins. Whew, what a grating exchange to watch. I'm not sure if this thread was started for a specific reason other than sharing an awful video, but I hope nobody is short-sighted enough to think that their feelings about this woman have anything to do with their feelings about feminism.
    It certainly has nothing to do with my feelings regarding equal rights and equal worth between males and females. If you mean 'feminism' in the sense of the conflict-theory oriented, white straight male privilege-obsessed ideological movement, then I don't believe that women's attitude is particularly rare. My opinion of the latter brand of 'feminism' is essentially the same as my opinion of Objectivism, or traditional Marxism (from which the ideological basis of the movement is ultimately derived); it describes a genuinely important component of aggregate reality, but an exaggerated one, and fixates upon that component to portray a highly skewed vision of social reality, one that in practice tends to promote and reinforce antagonistic and paranoid reactions towards members of defined social groups. That doesn't mean that most 'feminist' of that brand are like the woman in the video, but its difficult for some partisans of any conflict-oriented theory to separate intellectualized conflict between social groups with their actual feelings toward people (especially members of 'socially dominant' groups) who disagree with them (since by definition they contribute to the oppression of groups they belong to or strongly sympathize with, however unwitting such contributions may be).

  10. #20
    Entertaining Cracker five sounds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    It certainly has nothing to do with my feelings regarding equal rights and equal worth between males and females. If you mean 'feminism' in the sense of the conflict-theory oriented, white straight male privilege-obsessed ideological movement, then I don't believe that women's attitude is particularly rare. My opinion of the latter brand of 'feminism' is essentially the same as my opinion of Objectivism, or traditional Marxism (from which the ideological basis of the movement is ultimately derived); it describes a genuinely important component of aggregate reality, but an exaggerated one, and fixates upon that component to portray a highly skewed vision of social reality, one that in practice tends to promote and reinforce antagonistic and paranoid reactions towards members of defined social groups. That doesn't mean that most 'feminist' of that brand are like the woman in the video, but its difficult for some partisans of any conflict-oriented theory to separate intellectualized conflict between social groups with their actual feelings toward people (especially members of 'socially dominant' groups) who disagree with them (since by definition they contribute to the oppression of groups they belong to or strongly sympathize with, however unwitting such contributions may be).
    I agree with this. It happens with lots of different groups, and there are usually many shades of a given ideology. I might be a little idealistic in my view of the essential goodness of the idea. Unfortunately, adding the human factor necessarily taints the purity of the movement anyway. I just reuse to believe that feminism or countless other movements and ideas are about this combative reactionary behavior exhibited all too often. It's because of this misrepresentation that I feel compelled to defend. Just because some people display such emotional and rash tactics, doesn't mean it's not important to strive for improvement as a society. There is real inequality that doesn't need to be accepted as 'the way it is.' Organized philosophy is helpful to be educated and proactive about the facts so we can make informed decisions in our daily lives. It just really frustrates me when groups of people who are institutionally or otherwise subjicated have their rights dismissed because of idiots who claim to support them.
    You hem me in -- behind and before;
    you have laid your hand upon me.
    Such knowledge is too wonderful for me,
    too lofty for me to attain.

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