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  1. #61
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelric View Post
    Can't speak for Geoff, but as I basically agree with his position, I'll throw in my two cents. I agree, it is extremely rare to find a rude waiter in the U.S. In my experience, it's also rare to find a rude grocery clerk, a rude bookstore attendant, or a rude non-commission salesperson. If the employee (and let's be honest, particularly their employer) knows that I have a choice to take my business elsewhere, there's already a reason to provide good service. And frankly, I'd rather not have my ass kissed with the expectation of a handout.
    Is this sarcasm or do I need to move?

  2. #62
    Feline Member kelric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    Is this sarcasm or do I need to move?
    Heh - no, I was being serious. Most people around here do seem reasonably friendly (maybe it's a regional thing?). Now it's not like they're all super-chatty or anything (although some are), but for the most part, I find people reasonably courteous and helpful when asked. I guess that's all I really want or expect.

  3. #63
    Lallygag Moderator Geoff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    So because the waiters don't have to worry about tips, they can be jerks and not have to worry about retribution from the customers? It's extremely rare to find a rude waiter in the US. And if you do, you're probably finding a poor waiter, as well.

    What do you think about commission based compensation?
    Even if you tip French waiters, they'll still be rude. it's cultural.

    I'm ambivalent about commission based compensation - it can cause disruptiveness within teams (poaching) and stress that isn't needed (a bad year means bad money means less motivation means downhill rather than recovery). Flip side it can create sales - this may or may not be at the expense of existing serviced business.

  4. #64
    Senior Member Eileen's Avatar
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    I generally tip 20-25%. I feel guilty if I leave less, even if it isn't stellar service.
    INFJ

    "I can never be what I ought to be until you are what you ought to be. You can never be what you ought to be until I am what I ought to be. This is the interrelated structure of reality." -Martin Luther King, Jr.

  5. #65
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff View Post
    Even if you tip French waiters, they'll still be rude. it's cultural.
    But if you did tip a French waiter, it would be unexpected, wouldn't it? They're not going into the exchange thinking that if they're 'nice' they might get a tip, right?

    I'm not sure what you mean by 'it's cultural'. Are you saying that being rude is part of French culture? I thought that was just a stereotype.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  6. #66
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelric View Post
    Can't speak for Geoff, but as I basically agree with his position, I'll throw in my two cents. I agree, it is extremely rare to find a rude waiter in the U.S. In my experience, it's also rare to find a rude grocery clerk, a rude bookstore attendant, or a rude non-commission salesperson. If the employee (and let's be honest, particularly their employer) knows that I have a choice to take my business elsewhere, there's already a reason to provide good service. And frankly, I'd rather not have my ass kissed with the expectation of a handout.
    I doubt we frequent the same establishments then. I've received plenty of rude service from hourly wage earners at fast food restaurants over the years, but I have never run into a rude waiter or waitress, not even at a Denny's.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  7. #67
    Lallygag Moderator Geoff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    But if you did tip a French waiter, it would be unexpected, wouldn't it? They're not going into the exchange thinking that if they're 'nice' they might get a tip, right?

    I'm not sure what you mean by 'it's cultural'. Are you saying that being rude is part of French culture? I thought that was just a stereotype.
    I think being rude as a waiter is a real part of French culture. It's happened far too often in my experience for it to be anything else. I've even had it happen in French speaking Canada where they are expecting a tip.

  8. #68
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
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    I love how nobody ever admits to tipping poorly, and yet waiters always complain about getting stiffed on the tip. Doesn't add up.

    15% = standard good service (almost always), 20% if they went really out of their way to be awesome or as an apology for obnoxious friends, 10% if I'm REALLY unhappy with the service (rare). Pretty sure I've never not left a tip.

    It irritates me to see people bitching about a 15% tip. It's standard. Especially since here, at least, everyone except bartenders make at least minimum wage (I do realize waiters make less in the US), so with tips the waiters make a lot more than me for a less skilled job. Not that I'm bitter or anything....

  9. #69
    No me digas, che! Recoleta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelric View Post
    Is that really true, Recoleta? I'm not trying to be argumentative, but lots of people who don't get tips as part of their job do their best day in and day out, even if they're not thrilled about what they do. Sure, we can't always be at our best, but that's part of life. If you knew up front that you'd be paid fairly, would you really stop trying? I don't know you, but my guess is that you'd still try to be considerate and do a good job (you still have the risk of getting fired by your employer, like the rest of us ).
    I get what you're saying, and I do agree. Truthfully, and speaking for myself, I know I go in every day and try my best when I'm serving. I don't snub people, and I force myself to give quality service and try my best to be positive and always smile. However, that has a lot to do with my own personal work ethic and the way I was raised. I know plenty of rude and lazy servers who don't take personal pride in what they do and if given the option to have a fair living wage probably wouldn't try so hard. Perhaps they would look after their own tables, but a restaurant does not run on a servers solely taking care of their own tables...it really is a team effort. Every server is responsible for running hot food and salads/apps and for pre-bussing their tables and making sure dishes are stacked for the dishwashers, and also for sorting silverware. Without other people having your back stuff wouldn't get done.

    With that said, I think the main difference for people who do not get tips as part of their job is that they are aware of their salary from the start, and it does not necessarily fluctuate or depend on sales. This could work if a server's wage is agreed upon from the start, but then it's not really fair to have excellent and poor servers being payed the same wage because better servers will bring in higher revenue for the restaurant. But then to have a hierarchy-based salary for people who are performing the same job doesn't really seem very fair either...plus, there is only so much room for advancement. I think that tipping does add some incentive to give better service and to know your product inside and out. Plus, it takes the stress off of the business itself because restaurant sales are very elastic and can easily fluctuate.

    The thing that I just really dislike about the job is that I never know whether it's going to be a good or bad night. My pay range can fluctuate between $5-$21 an hour depending on how I get tipped and is not dependent upon how hard I actually work. It's a bummer sometimes, but hey, at the very least I have a nice, flexible schedule that is allowing me to finish school so that I can do something that I will really enjoy

  10. #70
    Fe, rusted. Poser's Avatar
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    I didn't know you were supposed to tip haircutters?! Do they get paid less than minimum wage? I have been going to the same person for about 5 years now. Holy crap, does that mean the next time I go I have to give like a $200 tip?

    All aboard the karma trainwreck: I always tip using my credit card. When I went to Argentina for business, of course, I ate out every meal. And every meal was on my credit card. On the credit card slip, there was a line for "Tipo", which I wrote in my tip amount (thinking that was spanish for tip). It wasn't until I got back to the states and started filling out my expense report that I noticed I hadn't tipped a single person while I was there. Turns out tipo is spanish for type, which I found out has something to do with goverment subsidized food.


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