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  1. #31
    Senior Member iNtrovert's Avatar
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    @entropie I don't know the whole story but I wouldn’t call what you’re doing moving forward well not emotionally. So I guess I meant moving forward in the sense of really getting involved with someone and getting past the fear of doing that. Although, you may not be ready for that. Regardless I don't think you have to be alone to sort out those feelings do you? Sometimes we learn more about ourselves by seeing through the eyes of others. Just because you're not ready to start a serious relationship doesn't mean you need or have to be alone does it? I’m not saying be a jerk about it but just be honest with those you get involved with about what you’re looking for. There is more than one kind of relationship. As long as you're up front with what your intentions are there’s nothing wrong with just experiencing being with other people.
    If you don't want to be alone then don't be. Everyone doesn't find clarity in solitude. Do you think getting involved with multiple women is keeping you from sorting you your emotions? The only potential problem I see is you using your current behavior as a distraction from the feelings you don’t want to but need to deal with. Have you evaluated whether it is the mechanism by which you deal with things or a distraction from dealing with things? I think there is a difference between the two. I also see the fact that you’re aware and somewhat leery of it becoming a distraction as a sign that you probably are dealing with it opposed to being distracted from it but only you can truly know that.
    "Re-examine all that you have been told... dismiss that which insults your soul."_Walt Whitman

  2. #32
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    The Title Creeps me out
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

    Theory is always superseded by Fact...
    ... In theory.

    “I’d hate to die twice. It’s so boring.”
    Richard Feynman's last recorded words

    "Great is the human who has not lost his childlike heart."
    Mencius (Meng-Tse), 4th century BCE

  3. #33

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    Nah. All thinkers feel. The most dangerous is the feeler who understands your perception and acts objectively.

  4. #34
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iNtrovert View Post
    @entropie I don't know the whole story but I wouldn’t call what you’re doing moving forward well not emotionally. So I guess I meant moving forward in the sense of really getting involved with someone and getting past the fear of doing that. Although, you may not be ready for that. Regardless I don't think you have to be alone to sort out those feelings do you? Sometimes we learn more about ourselves by seeing through the eyes of others. Just because you're not ready to start a serious relationship doesn't mean you need or have to be alone does it? I’m not saying be a jerk about it but just be honest with those you get involved with about what you’re looking for. There is more than one kind of relationship. As long as you're up front with what your intentions are there’s nothing wrong with just experiencing being with other people.
    If you don't want to be alone then don't be. Everyone doesn't find clarity in solitude. Do you think getting involved with multiple women is keeping you from sorting you your emotions? The only potential problem I see is you using your current behavior as a distraction from the feelings you don’t want to but need to deal with. Have you evaluated whether it is the mechanism by which you deal with things or a distraction from dealing with things? I think there is a difference between the two. I also see the fact that you’re aware and somewhat leery of it becoming a distraction as a sign that you probably are dealing with it opposed to being distracted from it but only you can truly know that.
    She left me six weeks ago and I fell into organisational hell. I had to move in with my parents, which was horrible and felt like a leap back in time. So I moved on as furious as I could and got myself a new flat, worked fulltime, got myself furniture, signed in in over 20 dating sites, lost 25 lbs, ran 6 miles a day and slept 3 hours the night....

    You know in Germany we are more into astrology than anything else. My star sign is leo but what really matters is the ascendant. This is the role you play in society, something like your fascade. Mine is Libra, which means I am a kinda imbalanced guy. And thats how it feels like: there may be little things happening to you, like a girl winking on the street. And the next 5 hours you feel like the worlds biggest playboy. Then there are times where in 5 hours on the streets, not one girl looks at you and it lets you feel like the most depressed guy on Earth. It is only those two extremes I am ricocheting in between and its completly draining my power. I completly lost the ability to just sit still and watch TV for more than 10 minutes, I am constantly on the move, seeking some sort of self-confirmation.

    I fuel my energy levels by woman who find me attractive. I have done so in the past. Then tho I was a silent watcher, who didnt need to react. Now I have to become active and if I were to like a girl too, I need to make the first step. This tho so never been my strength. I am a full nerd in that regards.

    This went on for 4 weeks then it got better. I was for ten years in a relationship and I have become very introverted in that time. This feeling came back and gave me rest and peace. The second tho it got better, I went to a concert, met my ex-girlfriend and slept with her. At that time we agreed on a restart and made big plans for the future. Two days later we broke up again, cause we both had tasted a new life and returning to the old one frightened us both. Now I am emotionally back to square zero, the last 4 weeks undone....

    Now I have this billions of thoughts running thru my head. All of them revolve around the one thought, if I will ever meet a girl again. I am a very complicated guy and I work a lot; I am not the kind of guy you meet in a disco and go to bed with. I try to become like that but I am far from being chilled enough for that. I can by a long shot not complain about the lack of female presence in my vicinity but I am building a relationship with everyone of them, I just cant do any better. I take the lead, responsibility, I start extending my body armor around them and wrap them with words in blankets. I am a cage builder and everytime I notice it, I jump back and am shocked by myself and bail out.

    On the other side I am dependant on woman to speak to me first in a bar or disco. Cause I have build a proud fascade of the Untouchable and tho I can cope with rejection, I am afraid of making the first step. But its so essential with woman. I have met a woman that was like a battleaxe. She insulted and hit me during sex but I went thru with it all the way. I am very tough in that regards, I just need to manage the first contact situation.

    And I need to chill out a lot more, I am again so under energy this is no basis for being the cool guy
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  5. #35
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Can you give an example of the highlighted?
    I cannot give you an example in the context of what Fia was describing, but your exchange put my mind to thought about feeling once again.

    In my thread a while back on the use of feeling, I concluded that I had made my peace with it because I have to cope with the hand I've been dealt. However that was only a half truth.

    The reality for me is that, no matter how I examine it I cannot see the benefit of a feeling mentality, as I said before it is only useful because we live in a world of people with reactionary emotions and who have feeling mentalities. Thinking can survive in a world with or without feeling, whereas feeling cannot.

    Why? Because the personal nature of it's fixations, whether Fe or Fi, drives it towards the valuation of something that is of a personal nature. But Thinkers already possess the necessary equipment for this, yet do so without overdoing the emotional content of that valuation, at least when healthy. And if anyone brings up that feeling functions are a rational cognitive process...yes they are....but they cannot function without the influence of emotional content, no matter how a person tries to wriggle away from that harsh truth, it's sits in front of us quite clearly for all to see.

    But so far so..repetitive of my original point, the main reason I brought this up again is the nature of the grass always being greener elsewhere. Here it is no different, but I can think of quite a few feelers who admire and are somewhat envious of the emotional privacy and precision of thinking, I cannot think of many thinkers who would be envious of feeling in the same way.

    That is just personal experience of course and proves nothing, but to me it does appear as a more one way street of desirability. Why would one want dominant or auxiliary feeling? Why not have it tertiary or inferior?

    In any case....pity us, we can help some foibles of feeling, but this is a poor existence of knowing that you must be this person for as long as you live.

    To exist in clear knowledge of ones own pointlessness, not from existentialism or comparison with the universe, but from the uselessness of your own cognitive make up...is a sad state indeed. Perhaps at least the most mature action a feeler can take is to stand aside of thinking and not bar it's way of progress.

    Why is clarity only available to me in my moments of deepest negativity? Why must I feel my way through life?
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  6. #36
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmitiveAnxiety View Post
    Why? Because the personal nature of it's fixations, whether Fe or Fi, drives it towards the valuation of something that is of a personal nature. But Thinkers already possess the necessary equipment for this, yet do so without overdoing the emotional content of that valuation, at least when healthy. And if anyone brings up that feeling functions are a rational cognitive process...yes they are....but they cannot function without the influence of emotional content, no matter how a person tries to wriggle away from that harsh truth, it's sits in front of us quite clearly for all to see.
    How is emotion involved in the valuation of those things of a personal nature? Is it impossible to have values without emotions?

    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmitiveAnxiety View Post
    But so far so..repetitive of my original point, the main reason I brought this up again is the nature of the grass always being greener elsewhere. Here it is no different, but I can think of quite a few feelers who admire and are somewhat envious of the emotional privacy and precision of thinking, I cannot think of many thinkers who would be envious of feeling in the same way.
    Perhaps we just do not know enough to be envious of feeling, or even to see our own foibles as clearly as feelers see theirs.

    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmitiveAnxiety View Post
    Perhaps at least the most mature action a feeler can take is to stand aside of thinking and not bar it's way of progress.
    When thinking is required, that is exactly what you should do, even if the thinking preference is surfacing in your own self. You think too, just as we feel, and you can learn to set emotions aside and proceed using logic when that is necessary. Many situations can be satisfactorily addressed using either, and most benefit from the combined use of both. I know plenty of feelers who are quite competent at engaging their thinking functions, much better than I am at the reverse.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  7. #37
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmitiveAnxiety View Post
    Why is clarity only available to me in my moments of deepest negativity? Why must I feel my way through life?
    In the moments of deepest negativity you can reach that great state of desperation that the only thing you feel is despair. While you basically are overwhelmed by a lot of emotions, in that moment its only one.

    Nobody understands why I listen to sad music, on the contrary they are more afraid that I'll kill myself. But it helps me think.
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  8. #38
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    How is emotion involved in the valuation of those things of a personal nature? Is it impossible to have values without emotions?
    Good questions, for the first I will answer that as a feeler myself I can describe the choice of what is valued as basically being not a choice at all. It is whatever invokes the most immediate emotional reaction in myself, this does not have to be intense it can be as small as picking up one of my models and feeling satisfaction at the painting I have realised from my imagination or the concepts that the model invoked in me when I saw and then bought it.

    This is of course mixed up in Si for myself, since I often go to familiar ideas or concepts repeatedly. But each time the familiarity helps bring back some of those emotions, I am aware of this only because I've spent time trying to identify my issues and automated responses. But this took many years for me to fully see.

    So in everything a little bit of chemical reaction is tied up with it and it is hard for me to escape that. As for the second question I don't know, I suppose there is no reason why not, but it depends upon awareness of what emotions actually are and they are more than just the extremes of our responses.

    So even when someone may believe themselves without emotion or not considering it, there might be a small smidge lurking somewhere.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Perhaps we just do not know enough to be envious of feeling, or even to see our own foibles as clearly as feelers see theirs.
    I could not say, it's somewhat individual.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    When thinking is required, that is exactly what you should do, even if the thinking preference is surfacing in your own self. You think too, just as we feel, and you can learn to set emotions aside and proceed using logic when that is necessary. Many situations can be satisfactorily addressed using either, and most benefit from the combined use of both. I know plenty of feelers who are quite competent at engaging their thinking functions, much better than I am at the reverse.
    I understand what you mean, but most feelers are never trained in the concepts of logic or how they work, besides my simplification of type was more my projection as an Fe dom. I find trying to distance myself impersonally and engage with the world in a logical fashion a massive strain on my well being and mind.

    No matter how much I might desire to do so. Which is why I'm training myself to recognise those times when thinking is more needed.....which is usually in most situations outside of comfort of another feeler.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  9. #39
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    It's just humans in general

    Please provide feedback on my Nohari and Johari Window by clicking here: Nohari/Johari

    Tri-type 639

  10. #40
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    the opposite. the most dangerous person is a Feeler who, despite being a psychopath/sociopath, can manipulate the shit out of people's emotions.

    for example



    ENFP: We put the Fi in Fire
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