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Thread: Germans

  1. #21
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by htb View Post
    Thinking that wouldn't have saved millions from the chambers. Tons and tons and tons of bombs dropped on urban industrial sites, however, flatly designated as engines of "the enemy," contributively did. Movies that depict the latter help to repair the damage done by those who think that an aversion to existentialistic distortion is glorification.
    Complete strawman. Movie after movie showing only the war side, often like a game, from only one side, undermines the impact of what war really involves. All philosphical wanking aside, you say that this acceptance of war is good for society - that the populace should accept war, and that is exactly what happens.

    The largest fundamental problem was the social acceptance of Hitler and his actions... the acceptance of going to war, in effect. It required a whole lot of manipulation, granted, but the society was military-complexed and nationalist to ignore the ramifications. Bombs should be the last solution for it is the most costly solution - there comes a time when it is needed, but the issue is for the next war. The war killed an estimated 25+ million military people... and an estimated 40+ million civilians, not including the civil deaths, such as the Nazi gas camps. Even if WWII was required, it does not justify the war complex, for that conditions the populace for WWIII.

    War is purely destructive and is to be avoided up to the point where it cannot be. To glorify war itself is to minimize the needed restraint before going to war. It is needed on both sides - one side must be the aggressor, and that is where the most prevention is required. But it is difficult to see who will become the downtrodden, who will be wronged... Every country needs restraint. Glorifying war weakens that restraint.

  2. #22
    Senior Member htb's Avatar
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    I think we're into the fourth world war, right now. As to restraint, the salient lesson of the Second World War is that western Europe did everything conceivable, from the occupation of the Rhineland to the eve of Case White, to avoid a military confrontation with Hitler -- and Germany's "complex," following Versailles, was no match for either France or Britain until early 1939.

    Anyway, I defer to channel constraints. Levity. More French Resistance in East Germany, thus more Top Secret.

  3. #23
    Senior Member Nighthawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by darlets View Post
    Opinion of "Jarhead"?
    I haven't seen that one yet, but it is on my list.

  4. #24
    Senior Member darlets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nighthawk View Post
    I haven't seen that one yet, but it is on my list.
    I thought watching it a second time with the commentry on was worth it.
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  5. #25
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    Oh yes, I really would love a WWII game on the German side.

    The closest to a German side is Battlefield 1942, which was primarily designed as a multiplayer game. I personally hate multiplayer -- I prefer a storyline.

    WWII games are just all the same and they're always about the Allied troops as if they were Gods.

    Once you get over the genocide thing, you'll see that Hitler was a great visionary who did a lot for Germany. He turned around a German economy (which only went down again because of the Allies), and the Nazi party was among the first parties to devote causes against animal cruelty.

    I mean, come on!! 12 million people dying isn't all that bad...there are still 6 billion left, and in all honesty, that's still too many people.

    The Nazis also had a great idea for experiments. I mean, why not use real human prisoners as test subjects? American prisons are overcrowding and people are being released on "good behavior." The rats used in scientific experiments that are being labeled as "vermin" are nothing compared to the low-lives sitting in their prison cells getting special privileges that are much harder for an honest person on the outside to attain.

    I hope people realize that Nazi Germany was not America. In Germany during that time, it was a crime to belong to a certain religion or ethnicity. Whether or not it freedom of religion and such is wrong is ultimately of a subjective value and varies from culture to culture.

    I am for cultural rights, not human.

    So yes, it would be a breath of fresh air if a single-player story-driven WWII game went onto the market. It's so fun to play the "bad guys."

    But honestly, isn't everyone tired of these Saving Private Ryan-esque WWII games, period? They're like zombie movies -- they're all the same.

    I'd love for there to be more Return to Castle Wolfenstein-like games. That's one of my favorite games of all time.

  6. #26
    Senior Member Nighthawk's Avatar
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    Politics and past history aside ... there was a PC game about 10 years ago called Steel Panthers ... where you could choose to play on the German side in platoon/company level tactical scenarios. There were even German vs. Russian scenarios. I still play it from time to time. It is not a first person shooter, but still quite enjoyable. The tactical game engine was way ahead of its time.

  7. #27
    will make your day Carebear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uberfuhrer View Post
    Oh yes, I really would love a WWII game on the German side.

    The closest to a German side is Battlefield 1942, which was primarily designed as a multiplayer game. I personally hate multiplayer -- I prefer a storyline.

    WWII games are just all the same and they're always about the Allied troops as if they were Gods.
    Agree.

    Quote Originally Posted by Uberfuhrer View Post
    Once you get over the genocide thing, you'll see that Hitler was a great visionary who did a lot for Germany. He turned around a German economy (which only went down again because of the Allies), and the Nazi party was among the first parties to devote causes against animal cruelty.

    I mean, come on!! 12 million people dying isn't all that bad...there are still 6 billion left, and in all honesty, that's still too many people.

    The Nazis also had a great idea for experiments. I mean, why not use real human prisoners as test subjects? American prisons are overcrowding and people are being released on "good behavior." The rats used in scientific experiments that are being labeled as "vermin" are nothing compared to the low-lives sitting in their prison cells getting special privileges that are much harder for an honest person on the outside to attain.

    I hope people realize that Nazi Germany was not America. In Germany during that time, it was a crime to belong to a certain religion or ethnicity. Whether or not it freedom of religion and such is wrong is ultimately of a subjective value and varies from culture to culture.

    I am for cultural rights, not human.
    WTF?!?!? What just happened there?
    (Either I gon't get your humor, or you're both slightly insane and ignorant.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Uberfuhrer View Post
    So yes, it would be a breath of fresh air if a single-player story-driven WWII game went onto the market. It's so fun to play the "bad guys."

    But honestly, isn't everyone tired of these Saving Private Ryan-esque WWII games, period? They're like zombie movies -- they're all the same.

    I'd love for there to be more Return to Castle Wolfenstein-like games. That's one of my favorite games of all time.
    Agree.

  8. #28
    Senior Member darlets's Avatar
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    There was a WWI game called Red Baron and you could play both sides and was quite well done for a flight sim (At the time)
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  9. #29
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Me and a group of guys were house mates at university. One guy had dropped out of joining us in the new house and so we were one down. We were waiting to find out who our new house mate would be.. anyhow the latest turn of phrase at that time was "You Nazi" as a more playful version of "You (fatherless son)".

    Lo and behold our new house mate was from Germany! A nice Bavarian called Uli. Now we all gathered and made sure that we all knew and agreed not to use the turn of phrase whilst this guy was living with us. It'd be rude and very undiplomatic. Of course we messed it up.

    With Uli sitting in the next room, the door open, out comes "You NAZI!!" when one Mike did something to the other (I forget what). Silence followed as we all looked to Uli looking really guilty. I swallowed my natural apprehension and broached the subject with Uli later. He explained that he wasn't offended and nor did he think it was directed at all towards him. To him, at least, it wasn't he who was a Nazi and that that part of his countries history made little impact and transferred little guilt onto him. His specific reasoning went along the lines of asking me if I felt any guilt for the Crusades... I left thinking deeply but respecting his mindset greatly.

    I guess from that I can only say that I'd wager that those who want to hear the German perspective are those who are interested in the German perspective and not limited to nor focused around those who are German or who come from German families.
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  10. #30
    Senior Member Bushranger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    The largest fundamental problem was the social acceptance of Hitler and his actions... the acceptance of going to war, in effect. It required a whole lot of manipulation, granted, but the society was military-complexed and nationalist to ignore the ramifications. Bombs should be the last solution for it is the most costly solution - there comes a time when it is needed, but the issue is for the next war. The war killed an estimated 25+ million military people... and an estimated 40+ million civilians, not including the civil deaths, such as the Nazi gas camps. Even if WWII was required, it does not justify the war complex, for that conditions the populace for WWIII.
    Your statements generalise rather well:

    The largest fundamental problem was the social acceptance of <?> and his actions... the acceptance of going to war, in effect. It required a whole lot of manipulation, granted, but the society was military-complexed and nationalist to ignore the ramifications. Bombs should be the last solution for it is the most costly solution - there comes a time when it is needed, but the issue is for the next war. The war killed an estimated <?> military people... and an estimated <?> civilians, not including the civil deaths, such as the <?> camps. Even if the <?> war was required, it does not justify the war complex, for that conditions the populace for WWIII.



    One of my favourite war movies was "The one that got away.", about one of the few German prisoners of war to escape during WWII (he escaped to the USA from Canada, the USA being neutral at the time). It was a British movie, but it showed a lot of respect for the primary character.
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