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Thread: Germans

  1. #11
    Senior Member logan235711's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by htb View Post
    Occasionally, the Second World War needs to be seen from this perspective.

    Otherwise: well-designed tanks, remarkable longevity through the Fischer-Tropsch process, and so on. The SOBs took losing pretty well.

    Edit: Historical inaccuracy intentional.
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    Quote Originally Posted by raincrow007 View Post
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    I was waiting for someone to do that for this, you get my special Star of The Day Award! ta-da!!

  2. #12
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    Even if a German army perspective could use some coverage, it is too associated with the holocaust to allow good identification with people in the German army in movies or books. (There are some exceptions for people who would identify, and by and large it could be done if handled carefully, but it would be very hard to separate the holocaust out from it.)

  3. #13
    will make your day Carebear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JivinJeffJones View Post
    Do you get sick of seeing movies about WW2 from the allied perspective? What do you think of all the games about WW2? Do you take any pride in the accomplishments of the German army in WW2, or in German generals like Rommel, the Desert Fox?
    I've gotten extremely sick of the "US saves Europe" perspective. The Russian, German and British perspective is much more interesting, but in the end I guess I'm a bit fed up with WW2-movies alltogether.

  4. #14
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carebear View Post
    I've gotten extremely sick of the "US saves Europe" perspective. The Russian, German and British perspective is much more interesting, but in the end I guess I'm a bit fed up with WW2-movies alltogether.
    I want more movies showing how the war started and the ramifications of these events... and a whole lot less movies glorifying the war. This is especially important in the sense that it further affirms that one side can do no wrong ("is good"), ignoring the fundamental problem that people are people, here, there... allied and enemy...

    But that's not much of a war movie. It'd just be nice for people to reconize what happened on both sides. Anyone who has ever been frustrated being shot over and over in BF1942 or something should realise that's probably slower than the rate real people died during those beach stormings. Encouraging that mental divide really trivalizes war.

    /aborted rant fragments, before I really get going.

  5. #15
    will make your day Carebear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    I want more movies showing how the war started and the ramifications of these events... and a whole lot less movies glorifying the war. This is especially important in the sense that it further affirms that one side can do no wrong ("is good"), ignoring the fundamental problem that people are people, here, there... allied and enemy...

    But that's not much of a war movie. It'd just be nice for people to reconize what happened on both sides. Anyone who has ever been frustrated being shot over and over in BF1942 or something should realise that's probably slower than the rate real people died during those beach stormings. Encouraging that mental divide really trivalizes war.

    /aborted rant fragments, before I really get going.
    QFT

    But as you say, that's not really a war movie. Still, you have some attempts at doing just that. When people criticize films like Der Untergang because they object to Hitler being portrayed as a real human instead of a demon, they scare me, 'cause they show that they haven't understood anything. The moral of WW2 isn't "Watch out for small raging Austrians with a funny moustache". In fact, showing that he, the people around him and germans in general were human, is essential to the understanding of what made it happen and which mechanics could make it happen again.

  6. #16
    shoshaku jushaku rivercrow's Avatar
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    The whole history of Germany from the late 1880s to 1950 is pretty interesting to me.

    The only movies I can think of that comes close to portraying life there/then--and I'm stretching--would be "I am a Camera" and "Cabaret!". At least they caught some of the conflictedness behind what happened. (Isherwood's _Berlin Stories_ is a pretty good read, IIRC.)

    I'm not trying to be an apologist, but those weren't easy times economically or politically. People tried to make the right decisions for themselves and their families. (Before anyone cries foul, I'd remind us that Americans at the time had interesting ideas about the rights and human-ness of minorities and non-Protestants as well.)
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  7. #17
    Senior Member htb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carebear View Post
    In fact, showing that he, the people around him and germans in general were human, is essential to the understanding of what made it happen and which mechanics could make it happen again.
    Borderline states -- weak electoral democracies, constitutional monarchies -- seem to be most susceptible to totalitarian subjugation. The Nazis, who never won a genuine electoral majority, would not have been granted a coalition government if the nascent republic hadn't been sundered by General von Schleicher.


    Quote Originally Posted by ptGatsby View Post
    This is especially important in the sense that it further affirms that one side can do no wrong ("is good"), ignoring the fundamental problem that people are people, here, there... allied and enemy...
    Thinking that wouldn't have saved millions from the chambers. Tons and tons and tons of bombs dropped on urban industrial sites, however, flatly designated as engines of "the enemy," contributively did. Movies that depict the latter help to repair the damage done by those who think that an aversion to existentialistic distortion is glorification.

    Edit: The Bonfire, for "lighthearted discussions"? I blew right past that. See Top Secret.

  8. #18
    Senior Member Nighthawk's Avatar
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    Slight tangent ... war movies ... Saving Private Ryan was among the most realistic I have ever seen. Having been in combat, it took me right back to it ... especially the knife fight and when they blew away the Germans who were surrendering. Very, very uncomfortable. Things I would rather forget. Even so, I have to hand it to directors and film professionals who can portray something so accurately.

  9. #19
    Senior Member darlets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nighthawk View Post
    Slight tangent ... war movies ... Saving Private Ryan was among the most realistic I have ever seen. Having been in combat, it took me right back to it ... especially the knife fight and when they blew away the Germans who were surrendering. Very, very uncomfortable. Things I would rather forget. Even so, I have to hand it to directors and film professionals who can portray something so accurately.
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  10. #20
    The Unwieldy Clawed One Falcarius's Avatar
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    I'm fed up with films what are fundamentally dramatized non-factual true stories.

    Quote Originally Posted by Haight View Post
    No!
    Falcarius make a note of Jews being good at holding grudges, for future reference.
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