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  1. #1

    Default Real time combat simulator, would you play?

    I've been reading about the latest in x box technology and multiplayer online action gaming and I cant help but think that it would remain similar to a lot of other, earlier multiplayer games.

    The combat isnt very realistic, its not just the rapid regeneration and the fact that you can afford to die but that's part of it, other things include the collision detection, contact detection and available weapons and the ability of characters to use them.

    I remember the more basic, brutalistic and bloody use of melee weapons, some of which I remember were literally pipes pulled from the surrounding walls in Silent Hill was commended for its realism back when the first game was first released, even if it was a pain in the ass that you could literally be chasing and being chased by a more powerful opponent and be running up and slapping them, bludgeoning them and running away and repeating.

    Perhaps WoW comes closer to the critical realism I'm talking about in so far that if you build up a character with hours and days and months of game play it is a real loss if your character then dies in combat or by accident or in a trap.

    If there was a sort of hyper realism online game would you play it or would it just be boring or disturbing?

  2. #2
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I've been reading about the latest in x box technology and multiplayer online action gaming and I cant help but think that it would remain similar to a lot of other, earlier multiplayer games.

    The combat isnt very realistic, its not just the rapid regeneration and the fact that you can afford to die but that's part of it, other things include the collision detection, contact detection and available weapons and the ability of characters to use them.

    I remember the more basic, brutalistic and bloody use of melee weapons, some of which I remember were literally pipes pulled from the surrounding walls in Silent Hill was commended for its realism back when the first game was first released, even if it was a pain in the ass that you could literally be chasing and being chased by a more powerful opponent and be running up and slapping them, bludgeoning them and running away and repeating.

    Perhaps WoW comes closer to the critical realism I'm talking about in so far that if you build up a character with hours and days and months of game play it is a real loss if your character then dies in combat or by accident or in a trap.

    If there was a sort of hyper realism online game would you play it or would it just be boring or disturbing?
    I'm confused about the specifics of the games you're discussing.

    For example, it's not disturbing in WoW in the least to "die" because it's not permadeath. It's an inconvenience at worst, if they still do XP docking for a death (although other MMO games like Rift do not dock XP anymore, they reduce a side stat instead that costs in-game coin to restore, and if you hit 0% all your stats are reduced until you get healed). It would only be disturbing if WoW had a "hardcore" setting where the character you invested 400 hours in could be gone if you were ambused by a PC with a lead pipe.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I'm confused about the specifics of the games you're discussing.

    For example, it's not disturbing in WoW in the least to "die" because it's not permadeath. It's an inconvenience at worst, if they still do XP docking for a death (although other MMO games like Rift do not dock XP anymore, they reduce a side stat instead that costs in-game coin to restore, and if you hit 0% all your stats are reduced until you get healed). It would only be disturbing if WoW had a "hardcore" setting where the character you invested 400 hours in could be gone if you were ambused by a PC with a lead pipe.
    I was thinking about whether or not a permadeath game would be marketable you know, it might influence whether or not people engage in combat just so readily and the loss if they lose in combat too.

    Then I wondered if it could be possible to incorporate something which would operate as a consequence but not so gravely, such as a restriction on hours you can play or when you can play again once your character has perished.

    The disturbing thing was to do with if some kind of realistic combat could be created, I dont know if you've played any of the more recent shoot em ups I've seen or WoW but the combat is sort of funny, you can run up to and run into enemy characters without automatically taking a hit or the like.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I was thinking about whether or not a permadeath game would be marketable you know, it might influence whether or not people engage in combat just so readily and the loss if they lose in combat too.
    Permadeath would definitely change the way a lot of people play, if not reduce the number of players, imo.

    Then I wondered if it could be possible to incorporate something which would operate as a consequence but not so gravely, such as a restriction on hours you can play or when you can play again once your character has perished.
    It depends on where the sweet spot is. There's a point at which people will play something, based on the enjoyment vs the challenge of it, and after that, the payoff isn't worth the investment. It would depend on the specifics. I think the ideas you toss out here definitely seem like possibilities. Some non-shooter / non-MMO games already implement this kind of thing. (You get a set of lives which are depleted as you lose them, and you gain one back after a certain time period has past. This restricts game play so that people aren't playing 24/7.)


    The disturbing thing was to do with if some kind of realistic combat could be created, I dont know if you've played any of the more recent shoot em ups I've seen or WoW but the combat is sort of funny, you can run up to and run into enemy characters without automatically taking a hit or the like.
    I have not seen any of those. I haven't played WoW for a few years now (I think my longest run on it was 2-3 years, up to the Witch King release), but I've got about 600 hours logged on RIFT. They just keep making that game better and better, although it's a little easier with the latest release than what I might like. I haven't done much PvP tho.

    I think the last shooter game I played was Left 4 Dead 2.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  5. #5
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    Game designers must ask themselves, generally--what sort of risk should the player incur if they lose? It's a range. This can range from starting right at the last boss they fought, to starting the stage over, to starting near their tombstone but with half their gold pieces to.. well, permadeath.

    That risk must strike a balance that gives the player incentive to play. Too little risk is boring; too much is frustrating.

    Permadeath games have a niche, mostly in somewhat long and strategic games. Most people would prefer to not have to start over every time they screwed up in a game.

    Terraria has a "Hardcore" mode where, typical of roguelikes, you die forever if you die. For wimps like me, it also has a "Normal" mode where you respawn when you die.


    Aside -- another sort of realism: check it.

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