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  1. #51
    Senior Member Viridian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    Aw yesss!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    I think people within the culture often see it that way, but I don't think it's really a valid analogue of real cultural appropriation which is frowned upon because of ties to imperialism and oppression, factors that don't really apply to geek culture. By and large I am not sympathetic with geeks who are possessive of geek culture and insist on vetting everyone who wants to be a part of the fun (well- not everyone. usually just pretty girls). I find it overwrought and I think they need to get over themselves, usually.
    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    I'm sure it's a real thing and applies in certain contexts, but putting comic book characters in that category would really be stretching it. I think, in this case and cases like it, it has a lot more to do with misogyny than it does genuine protection of the integrity of a culture.

    The complaint about girls cosplaying in skimpy costumes is kind of crazy to me, when there aren't that many female characters you can cosplay in certain geekdoms that appear in non-revealing clothes. When women complain about the way females are portrayed in comics, etc they are generally told to suck it up. So if someone happens to like a character and wants to cosplay as that character and be recognizable, they must wear a revealing costume.

    As far as booth babes go, when it's not worth companies' money to pay them to be there, they'll stop being a thing. It's probably not mostly geek chicks they're being hired to entertain. If geek guys want them to go away, all they have to do is ignore them for a year or two. Surely they can muster that much self-control, even in the face of mind controlling cleavage.

    I don't think most guys would have their geek cred questioned for, well, any reason, including but not limited to wearing a revealing costume. There might be other questions asked, but not whether they really were fans of a character. I mean, they can totally get by with appropriating My Little Pony but if a girl wears a Wonder Woman costume, it's a problem? That, IMO, is messed up. Male privilege at it's pettiest.
    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    When the fuck did being a nerd make you a hipster jock?

    "You're not a REAL nerd if you watch the Big Bang Theory! You ought to be actually studying science!" "You only SAY you like Spiderman! You didn't even know he died and Dr. Octogonomus took over his body!!" "You actually LIKED The Hulk Movies?! I don't think we can be friends anymore."

    Someone's seriously mad that girls are dressing the way they're drawn in comic books?? Change the wardrobe then! Stop drawing girls in tiny outfits and they'll stop costume playing in them!

    I don't see anyone at the bowling alley yelling at me because I say I like bowling and I actually suck at it because I'm a CASUAL player and don't play often enough to get good at the sport. I don't see anyone getting pissed off at me during our team sports days when I suck at football but claim to like it. No one gives me shit for not knowing every single member on the teams I support--I know what I like and I want to know if we win or lose, I don't mind the details too much.

    It's like being a nerd is suddenly acceptable (something nerds DREAMED ABOUT FOR SO LONG) and now that it is they're mad that MORE people are supporting their favorite things in the world and making the more readily acceptable?

    You know who else complains about this shit? Hipsters and bands. and No One Is On Myspace Anymore. No one likes that shitty little attitude. No one thinks it's cool to be a whiny angry twerp. No one wants to hang out with pretentious dicks.

    Edit: Comic book artists are constantly struggling.. anything to make more people support what they do, I am pretty sure they're all in for it. I don't see many comic book artists themselves complaining that people dress as their characters, whether they're die hard fans or just having fun and liking the outfit. The only people who complain about this are people who spent way too much of their personal time on something they liked and they're mad that no one else has time to do that.
    All great points here. Thank you for the excellent input.

    Quote Originally Posted by digesthisickness View Post
    Ah. Thanks for explaining the differences. I knew, of course, about true fans dressing up, which I think is great, but wasn't sure if after reading that, I'd imagined wrongly that the others were paid to be there, or if there were actually three categories instead. The fans, the paid ones, and the additional category being women showing up who have no real interest or passion for comic-con's purpose, and are just using it to dress up and get attention because their chances of getting attention is much better being that they're depicting characters that have a fan base. Riding on that character's coattails, in other words, just for the thrill of the attention.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rasofy View Post
    Some women need a lot of male attention to feel validated.

    Some will go to night clubs wearing mini skirts 'just to dance', some will create a profile on okcupid and mark 'interested in casual sex' and then complain that only creepers message them, and some will pretend they are 'nerds' to lure these and reject the advances.
    Isn't it interesting how pretty much everything women do is interpreted in the context of trying to attract (or sometimes repel) the attention of the opposite sex?

    Not every girl wearing miniskirts or tight clothing or makeup is out to get the D. Especially since women who don't do these things can get labelled as "ugly", which is the worst thing you can call a girl in a society where her body is still seen as the patrarchy's commodity.
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  2. #52
    royal member Rasofy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viridian View Post
    Isn't it interesting how pretty much everything women do is interpreted in the context of trying to attract (or sometimes repel) the attention of the opposite sex?

    Not every girl wearing miniskirts or tight clothing or makeup is out to get the D. Especially since women who don't do these things can get labelled as "ugly", which is the worst thing you can call a girl in a society where her body is still seen as the patrarchy's commodity.
    And that's why I said "some women".

    Ti never fails.
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  3. #53
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasofy View Post
    Some women need a lot of male attention to feel validated.

    Some will go to night clubs wearing mini skirts 'just to dance', some will create a profile on okcupid and mark 'interested in casual sex' and then complain that only creepers message them, and some will pretend they are 'nerds' to lure these and reject the advances.
    Some women DO need a lot of attention to feel validated. Male in nature though? I don't think that is necessarily all of it.

    Lesbians are a great example. You have no idea the sexual orientation of a woman--so maybe she is trying to get attention.. but it doesn't have to be male she's calling for. And I find that young crowds want attention from *anyone* who will give it to them--drunk, sober, male, female, positive, negative, etc.

    I cannot and never will invalidate the fact that there are women who definitely do this hypocritical garbage described. I just happen to think men do it *just* as often, with no consequence and thus it never really shows up on the radar.
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  4. #54
    Senior Member Viridian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasofy View Post
    And that's why I said "some women".

    Ti never fails.
    Point. Even if they're looking for attention, though, what's the beef if they're not harassing anyone?

    Alluring, inviting women are used as imagery everywhere, including comics. But if they do it out of their own will, rather than as a graphic accessory or a pornographic fantasy, they're deemed "sluts" and "whores". What gives?

    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    Some women DO need a lot of attention to feel validated. Male in nature though? I don't think that is necessarily all of it.

    Lesbians are a great example. You have no idea the sexual orientation of a woman--so maybe she is trying to get attention.. but it doesn't have to be male she's calling for. And I find that young crowds want attention from *anyone* who will give it to them--drunk, sober, male, female, positive, negative, etc.

    I cannot and never will invalidate the fact that there are women who definitely do this hypocritical garbage described. I just happen to think men do it *just* as often, with no consequence and thus it never really shows up on the radar.
    Also, this. Thanks, kyuuei.
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  5. #55
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viridian View Post
    Alluring, inviting women are used as imagery everywhere, including comics. But if they do it out of their own will, rather than as a graphic accessory or a pornographic fantasy, they're deemed "sluts" and "whores". What gives?
    WORD. I think the OP will probably say they're not alluring or inviting enough to be given the slut pass, though. "Con girls" aren't hot in his opinion. How dare they dress in any way that doesn't fully acknowledge how unappealing they are to the OP?

  6. #56

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    I liked Cafe's link and that guy's response to Harris. I think I see what's going on here. Geek culture is (actually, these days, it's more like was, and that's part of my point) largely composed of people rejected unfairly and superficially by the mainstream. Jock vs. Geek. They were excluded, and now they've found a thing that's theirs. And the con girl thing is like the jocks coming to annex what little world the geeks have managed to carve out for themselves. Geek guy says, "You have the world at your feet. You don't even need this. Why do you have to come take my little thing too?"

    And I get it. But the thing is, they're doing the same thing. They're excluding based on superficial characteristics, and they're even using the same wording..."you're not cool enough." Geeks have become what they hate.
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  7. #57
    royal member Rasofy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    And I find that young crowds want attention from *anyone* who will give it to them--drunk, sober, male, female, positive, negative, etc.
    A fair assessment.

    I cannot and never will invalidate the fact that there are women who definitely do this hypocritical garbage described. I just happen to think men do it *just* as often, with no consequence and thus it never really shows up on the radar.
    I disagree here. Not because men are saints, but because their short term standards are, on average, lower, so they are much more likely to somehow reward the attention they receive.

    Quote Originally Posted by Viridian View Post
    Point. Even if they're looking for attention, though, what's the beef if they're not harassing anyone?
    Hmm, it's not harmful, I guess. Low self esteem manifestations are pretty pathetic in general, but as long as there's no deception involved, I don't see anything morally objectionable.

    Alluring, inviting women are used as imagery everywhere, including comics. But if they do it out of their own will, rather than as a graphic accessory or a pornographic fantasy, they're deemed "sluts" and "whores". What gives?
    Not sure, but I wasn't implying that.
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    A man builds. A parasite asks 'Where is my share?'
    A man creates. A parasite says, 'What will the neighbors think?'
    A man invents. A parasite says, 'Watch out, or you might tread on the toes of God... '


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  8. #58
    Senior Member Viridian's Avatar
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    Nah, no sweat, Ras, that last part wasn't directed at you in particular.
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  9. #59
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    It amuses me how many of you overanalyze this. It is incredibly simple.

    You like scenarios? I like them, too.
    Here's one for you to chew on (if you will):

    Say, I'm a person and I infiltrate your niche social group. Now, I don't necessarily care about the niche itself, but I will maintain a superficial affinity for it in order to "blend in." Not only that, I have nothing but sheer disdain for you and your ilk. I feel that you're beneath me. But you're useful in fulfilling my agenda, so I keep you around. Until something better comes along.

    In essence, I only stick around to get what I want from YOU. Obviously, I am not a "true" friend.
    Nonetheless, I'll dress the dress and talk the talk to get what I feel I'm entitled to.

    ...And once the not-so-intricate facade drops, would you meet me with hostility? 'Cause I think you would.

    In essence, this is what Harris is acknowledging.
    Certainly the guy is a giant asshole who needs to take a grammar course, but he has a very astute point.

    I encounter this ALL THE TIME in almost every subculture there is--males and females BOTH engage in this.

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