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Thread: Perspective.

  1. #1
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Default Perspective.

    I suppose this thread is here simply because of something that happened 10 minutes ago.

    My mother decided to urge me to clean my room. In my opinion it isn't excessively untidy or dirty. But anyhow I was childish and argued with her a bit about the necessity as she put it, whereas I saw it as a want from her for it to be clean.

    She said I needed it to be clean and tidy, I said she wanted it clean and tidy, there is a difference. Then she pulled her favourite card on me; the fact that I have asthma. Now I didn't want to argue anymore because it was a pathetic insignificant incident.

    But as she said that, I realised my perspective on the situation is that she claims it is for the benefit of my asthma that the room should be clean and tidy, there is a point there yes, but at the same time I know what she is like about mess and I couldn't help but consider that statement a lie to cover up the fact that she just wants it tidy for her own preferences.
    Now to her she is thinking of my health, to me she is thinking of herself and her preferences, while disguising them as kindness. I wondered if asthma was removed from the picture, would she be able to argue any case at all?

    And bearing in mind if I were to post pictures of my room you might even be hard pressed to even see the mess she spots.

    She is no cleanliness tyrant, but she is fairly obsessive. However then upon considering some more; I realised that the style in which I had argued, while correct to me, was also immature and defensive. Perhaps my mum needs that control, to anchor her in reality and who am I to deny her that? After all she is hardly bullish about it, it's never a heated argument.

    The real point, though, is that this reminded me of my fascination with perspectives. How something can be turned on it's head and it immediately changes into something completely different.

    One person perceives benefit the other perceives oppression. Of course this is not a new idea, nor is it one that I think would interest too many people, being as how they have probably already considered it and more.

    But sometimes it is nice to run with the impulses.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  2. #2
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    Yeah good and bad come on the same ship. Taoist wisdom.

    A farmer has an abundant crop, "how lucky!" his neighbors say. "Maybe," he responds. Then his son breaks his leg, and his neighbors say "how unfortunate, now your crops will go to waste because your son can't help you." "Maybe," he responds. Then a war comes, and his son gets to stay home because of the war. "How fortunate! Now your son won't die in the war!" his neighbors then say.

    It's something I am really am focused on right now. Perspective. For me I think this is Ni development.

    FWIW, I feel persecuted by people like your mother. Like the fire of a thousand suns.

  3. #3
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    FWIW, I feel persecuted by people like your mother. Like the fire of a thousand suns.
    Haha yeah, over the years she has learnt that butting heads with me means hers will soon ring. I usually just argue and point out the flaws in her reasoning till she gets bored and goes away.

    I have also told her time and time again if she just left me to it, I would clean and tidy of my own accord. But....of course that would not be HER orders being followed then. Even though in her mind she has openly claimed she does not think that way. So I can't tell her how she thinks, that is unfair, but her behaviour betrays her words.

    It is also a bit of contrariness on my part as well. It's like a situation where someone asks you to do something you are already in the process of doing, it doesn't have any impact on what my actions or choices will be, so why try to impose your stamp of authority on it?

    As for Taoism ive not really looked into it, but there is always time to start.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

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    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmitiveAnxiety View Post
    I have also told her time and time again if she just left me to it, I would clean and tidy of my own accord. But....of course that would not be HER orders being followed then. Even though in her mind she has openly claimed she does not think that way. So I can't tell her how she thinks, that is unfair, but her behaviour betrays her words.
    I can relate to your mother in liking things clean and tidy, but not so much the control aspect. Clutter and messes really do bother me - it is like visual noise, distracting and unpleasant. But I recognize this as a want rather than a need, and thus not entirely rational, as long as the mess doesn't cross the line into unhealthfulness, attracting pests, etc. I argue about this with my SO from time to time, but it is generally enough if common areas are kept tidy, and each of us can maintain our own areas to suit our own tastes.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    I can relate to your mother in liking things clean and tidy, but not so much the control aspect. Clutter and messes really do bother me - it is like visual noise, distracting and unpleasant. But I recognize this as a want rather than a need, and thus not entirely rational, as long as the mess doesn't cross the line into unhealthfulness, attracting pests, etc. I argue about this with my SO from time to time, but it is generally enough if common areas are kept tidy, and each of us can maintain our own areas to suit our own tastes.
    I see, but to me that's fine. I think my issue is not that she demands it of me, but that she proclaims that it is MY need not hers. I can relate to your description of clutter and mess being like visual noise, I have a similar reaction if my room is too untidy, but what my judgement of mess is, is not the same as anothers.

    I suppose, like I said, it is a bit of immaturity in myself that I see the issue as being bound by a point of technicality in speech. If she admitted she would like it that way, I might not still concede, but I would be more willing to consider her perspective of it and meet in the middle.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

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