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  1. #11
    redundant descriptor netzealot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    My intent was to demonstrate that we DO have a, working, system. Nothing in government is fast, efficient, or flawless.. but it DOES work. It isn't like if I were to try to immigrate to Uganda, or to South America, where lord knows what can go wrong. We have a website, and a legit set up. Nothing that involves a major life change is easy in and of itself, but we've mapped it out for someone wanting to be a citizen fairly well.
    This is true. There is a way and it's far more reliable than the author of that cracked.com article would have you know. That doesn't change the fact that very few people are able to navigate the process without any experience, or that they even have the option to do so.

    I'd say, if you're not closely related to a US citizen, and not willing to work or go to school here, you have almost no chance. It's not really fair-weather task to undertake. Also, going into the embassy and telling them you want to live here is a bad idea. Later on, when you go to try and get your foothold in the country started, you're going to have a harder time convincing them that you won't leave when your visa expires since they know you want to stay.

  2. #12
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    When I was living as an expatriate in the US, I actually were contacted by US officials to know if I wanted to become an US citizen, and how they could help me to achieve this task. I didn't ask anything though, and politely answered I wasn't interested at this moment, but "thank you" anyway...
    The same phenomena happened to many close friends of mine, who weren't married or related to any US citizen whatsoever.
    I don't see why I should trade my current citizenship, since France is far from being a dictatorship (so far!) and a French EU Passport is probably as useful as an American one, if not better diplomatically.

    Anyway, that's why I consider it's incredibly easy to get US citizenship. Or rather, it was easy, since it all happened during the 90's. Unfortunately, the Bush administration has done lot of harm to US international relationships since that time.
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  3. #13
    Phantonym
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    My intent was to demonstrate that we DO have a, working, system. Nothing in government is fast, efficient, or flawless.. but it DOES work. It isn't like if I were to try to immigrate to Uganda, or to South America, where lord knows what can go wrong. We have a website, and a legit set up. Nothing that involves a major life change is easy in and of itself, but we've mapped it out for someone wanting to be a citizen fairly well.
    Seems like you were talking about the ease of access to the requirements, but I was talking about how difficult the process of immigrating itself would be. Countries who wish to accept immigrants all have an official set of requirements and a working system for doing so.

    You argued that it's "pretty easy" to immigrate to the US, I counter-argued that it is not. People probably have a better chance at immigrating to Uganda or countries in South America than to the US just because the demand for the "American Dream" is so much higher.

  4. #14
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DisneyGeek View Post
    Healthcare is a huge issue in the United States, so why aren't more people immigrating to Canada instead? For some reason it doesn't seem to be as popular.
    If you scale it in terms of absorption rates, Canada is extremely high. It is generally much more preferred as a destination, in part because there is a lot more social support for immigration... however, it is not easy to get into Canada simply because our population is relatively small. So you end up with a pretty open and kind system, but a weirdly distorted one.



    Quote Originally Posted by LevelZeroHero View Post
    Canadian healthcare is largely misunderstood. They still pay for it through their employer, the only difference is you can get it for free if you're below a certain income level. In the US, the most you can get is state welfare for medication. They do pay a little less as well since it's subsidized by the government, but then again you also pay higher taxes.
    The cost is the cost, it's distribution of the cost that matters. The USA's general knowledge the the Canadian system is really poor and highly distorted. Not all employers pay for their employee's cost; but the full cost is a fraction of what you would pay as an individual in terms of insurance. It's subsidized through socialization, but the alternative is subsidies (or non-coverage) through high specific bills. Anyway, I have few complaints about the Canadian system. There are some other systems throughout the world that are better in some regards/etc, but the US is quite different. Anyone comparing their personal coverage between the US to Canada, that is not willing to spend the average person's full wage on insurance, is better off in Canada.

    edit: I was going to say that I looked into the Canadian system some recently out of curiosity. It actually tends to favor higher diversity immigrants (Canada actually believing in a multicultural society as being good for our social fabric). So a lot of it depends on where and who you are, and why you want to come in.

  5. #15
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phantonym View Post
    Seems like you were talking about the ease of access to the requirements, but I was talking about how difficult the process of immigrating itself would be. Countries who wish to accept immigrants all have an official set of requirements and a working system for doing so.

    You argued that it's "pretty easy" to immigrate to the US, I counter-argued that it is not. People probably have a better chance at immigrating to Uganda or countries in South America than to the US just because the demand for the "American Dream" is so much higher.
    I was in Uganda working with their political system.. I can assure you, it is easy to be an illegal there, but not easy to immigrate in comparison to the US.

    Nothing is easy while you are doing it. But you're looking at a government-ran system. All government systems are complicated, bureaucratic, and sometimes have stupid things that takes months of repair. Nothing fixes that and it is everywhere you go, so I simply dropped it from the conversation--if you mess up on the paperwork you have to re-do it, if you have any complications or special situations it is going to delay it, there are a hundred things just waiting to go wrong--but why am I going to focus on the obviously negative things that can and do happen? The whole damn world's complex and difficult to navigate.. But, in comparison, our system seems really straight forward and easy to understand. For a country to be in such high demand we really don't hide any step of the process from people or make it difficult to access all the tools and information you need to get yourself started. It really is rather easy in comparison. Spend a couple days filling out all the required paperwork--give them an ass load of money--follow instructions, fix the shit when they mess it up, submit it all again--and then play the waiting game a few times. All in all, it IS a simple process.. real life situations muck it up, but that's everything you do and everywhere you go.

    Don't convince someone dreaming that their dream is a pain in the ass. That really doesn't get anyone anywhere.
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  6. #16
    Phantonym
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    I was in Uganda working with their political system.. I can assure you, it is easy to be an illegal there, but not easy to immigrate in comparison to the US.

    Nothing is easy while you are doing it. But you're looking at a government-ran system. All government systems are complicated, bureaucratic, and sometimes have stupid things that takes months of repair. Nothing fixes that and it is everywhere you go, so I simply dropped it from the conversation--if you mess up on the paperwork you have to re-do it, if you have any complications or special situations it is going to delay it, there are a hundred things just waiting to go wrong--but why am I going to focus on the obviously negative things that can and do happen? The whole damn world's complex and difficult to navigate.. But, in comparison, our system seems really straight forward and easy to understand. For a country to be in such high demand we really don't hide any step of the process from people or make it difficult to access all the tools and information you need to get yourself started. It really is rather easy in comparison. Spend a couple days filling out all the required paperwork--give them an ass load of money--follow instructions, fix the shit when they mess it up, submit it all again--and then play the waiting game a few times. All in all, it IS a simple process.. real life situations muck it up, but that's everything you do and everywhere you go.

    Don't convince someone dreaming that their dream is a pain in the ass. That really doesn't get anyone anywhere.
    We're still talking about different things. Of course the bureaucracy takes time and money and all that. Following the list of requirements is the easy part, you're right about that and I'm not arguing against it.

    The difficulty for the OP or anybody else in immigrating anywhere isn't about the ability to follow instructions. It's the strict requirements that make it hard for people to immigrate in the first place - people have to be eligible before they can even start the whole process. It's not about just getting an idea about immigrating, picking out a place and following your dream.

    People can dream all they want, but they also have to face the reality that unless they meet the requirements, it's not going to happen. If they get into it unprepared, they're still not going to get anywhere, that's the whole point. All I'm trying to convince the OP of is that it is possible to immigrate, but he has to get all the facts first and not only worry about whether people are cool with immigrants.

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