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  1. #31
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    Well I will do my best.

    It looks like I am going to need that luck.

    You might as well abort your mission now. If you were dealing with TPs, all you'd have to do is show that your system is efficient enough to be embraced. Not a thing you can do with FPs. Of course you could first win their sympathies and then their Te will fire up naturally. In such an event you will be able to influence them just like any other type, by virtue of 'rational' persuasion.

    I doubt you will be in the position to accomplish this, at least not in the near future. In order to win their sympathies you must affirm their values. Unless your values are consistent with theirs, you will be forced to prostitute your character more than you'd be willing to tolerate.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

  2. #32
    heart on fire
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    How would mid aged PF parents react to an idea that their TJ son wants to control them.
    Personaly I think that I am not total faschist but this people are unable to take care for themselfs.
    All deadlines are totaly relative to them and I am paying bills when they forget.
    They want to give me one shelf as a gift but I am waiting that shelf for 7 years now.
    Also I want that all members of the family have some normal weight so I plan dractic changes in feeding habits.I will try to ban smoking as well and plan to change many small things.
    The entire list is long but I think everybody grasp my plan.

    For years I am waiting some changes but it looks like nothing will happen and I think that I have been patient long enough. Not to mention that I have many problems in life because of this but they have even larger ones.

    So would FPs have problem whit this if they know that they cannot organize themselfs.

    Just to be clear I will insist in my ideas a lot any way. I just want to know how big resistance I can expect in this. My idea is that it should not be to hard because they know that I am right about this. But still I would like second opinion.
    And I will not be too direct because entire plan would fail in that case.

    As far as the bills go, I think the only possible way to get through to them is to try and plead to their sense of empathy for you, that it is unfair of them to place the burdens of taking care of them on you, it hurts you to see them suffer and they are not thinking of you and your feelings when they do so...that sort of thing, but not guarenteed to work, it might, but might not. Depends on how out of touch with things they really are.


    Anything that affects you personally, you can try to approach them in terms of how it affects your feelings, because that they can understand and empathize with. But things that come under their personal care, that's not going to be something I think you can control to any degree. with things like their personal weight, that's sort of crossing a boundary there. They alone are responsible for their self care, unless they become totally mentally disabled. We cannot help those who don't want to help themselves.

    I can relate, however, I had INTJ father who was a problem drinker and I had to come to terms with the fact that nothing I could do would compel him to change his ways. It caused me much pain and worry for years. I still feel so many mixed feelings about all the years of pain his habits created. It is not easy to watch a parent be self destructive.

  3. #33
    The Destroyer Colors's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one
    Not directly but whit a few years and many factors that [death] will be the outcome.
    I think that'll be true of all the rest of us, no?

    It seems like you've got your heart in the right place. I think it being online and all, we can't know your situation. I guess I'm asking whether if you really need to control them or, maybe, if you let them be they might surprise you and be capable of paying their own bills on time and such (perhaps with a gentle note reminder).

    I think the way to get FPs to agree to changing might be to discuss with them the issue. Not in a way: "Here's my plan and you need to do x,y, z". More like bring up the facts of the matter and why you're concerned - and find some common ground on what should be changed and how to change it. Most Ps are resistant to "control"- and so an approach which is more of a group collaboration stemming from common consensus is more likely to work.

  4. #34
    Senior Member TenebrousReflection's Avatar
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    Also not a parent, but...

    Parts of your story remind me of someone I once knew. He was constantly making decisions that were to the detriment of his health, and he had friends that tried to look out for him and tried to convince him of the dangers, but I could see even then that he knew death was imminent and it was a matter of him wanting to enjoy however much time he had left instead of making the changes and seeking the surgeries that would give him a few more years of life. Eventually his way of life did claim him, and it was sad to see him go, but I took some comfort in knowing that he did not live his final days in misery and met his end on his own terms while everyone else kept saying "if only he'd have listened to us" etc.

    I don't know if you can draw parallels there or not. NFPs are not completely irrational, but if you try to control one (even for their own good), you won't likely have good luck with that and may end up with resentment for your efforts. I know it may seem unnatural to you, but I think your best bet is to try to make an appeal that is both rational and emotion (if you did not care about them, you would not be taking the time to talk about it). Let them know your concerns, offer suggestions, answer their questions, concerns and comments (which to you may seem unimportant, but if they are sharing their concerns and objections with you, chances are they see them as being as valid as you see your reasons). To reason with an NFP, its important to know and understand whats important to one and logic is going to be a lot lower priority for a NFP than a TJ, but once you understand whats important to one, you may be able to use your logic to analyze and explore solutions that may lead to a compromise that satisfies all persons involved. I don't think finding a solution is hopeless, but if that solution involves telling and NFP whats best for them, ya then its probably hopeless.

    Good luck.

  5. #35
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TenebrousReflection View Post

    I don't know if you can draw parallels there or not. NFPs are not completely irrational, but if you try to control one (even for their own good), you won't likely have good luck with that and may end up with resentment for your efforts. I know it may seem unnatural to you, but I think your best bet is to try to make an appeal that is both rational and emotion (if you did not care about them, you would not be taking the time to talk about it). Let them know your concerns, offer suggestions, answer their questions, concerns and comments (which to you may seem unimportant, but if they are sharing their concerns and objections with you, chances are they see them as being as valid as you see your reasons). To reason with an NFP, its important to know and understand whats important to one and logic is going to be a lot lower priority for a NFP than a TJ, but once you understand whats important to one, you may be able to use your logic to analyze and explore solutions that may lead to a compromise that satisfies all persons involved. I don't think finding a solution is hopeless, but if that solution involves telling and NFP whats best for them, ya then its probably hopeless.

    I had something like this is in mind but main problem is in me and emotion part.
    They don't call me the Borg just because they like the word and I am well aware of the fact that they are afraid of my way of looking at the things.

    But it makes no sence not to try and problems will be larger and larger whit time so time to act in now while things are still working.

  6. #36
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    FPs are more resilient than they look. I could never survive some of what my FP mother has put herself through. That is why I live relatively cautiously. I need to. She does not need to. She's been doing crazy stuff her whole life and she'll be sixty this winter. What would really kill her is being stuck in a stable life where she was bored. It would suck the life right out of her.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

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