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  1. #31
    Freaking Ratchet Rail Tracer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Udog View Post
    Thanks for sharing those articles! How did I not already know that?

    What's interesting is that love and hate share very similar neural circuits, except that love omits the judgement and predictive aspects. It almost seems like you can boil it down to:

    Love - Acceptance = Hate.

    So, in that context, the quote is saying that you have to do things that excite that love/hate circuit. Whether the hatred parts of the circuit (judgement -> disgust -> conjecture and prediction -> movement / action) get excited depend on the individual, but to have a shot at either, you need to risk having both.
    Yes, that is my interpretation. To have either, you have to risk having both. It is like falling in love with someone, and later finding out that that person was more than you'd asked for.

    With acquaintances, I'm less likely to show these emotions. With close family, I am more willing to show these emotions.

    Thus, the whole apathetic-love/hate thing I was talking about.

    Love and hate are strong emotions, the opposite of these emotions are apathy or indifference (which is little to no emotions.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffywolf View Post
    Not very enneagram 9, is what I think. The quote doesn't resonate with me, I don't see the correlation between not being afraid to be hated and being deserving of love.

    Also, I stopped giving a crap what people think about me years ago. That hasn't exactly put me ahead in the love department. I suppose I do ok in the respect department though. But I'm quite unlovable. :P
    What type do you think I am if I see some reasoning behind that sentence?

  2. #32
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rail Tracer View Post

    What type do you think I am if I see some reasoning behind that sentence?
    You're INFJ, I'd be amazed if there are sentences you won't see some reasoning behind.
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

  3. #33
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Udog View Post
    ...then you don't deserve to be loved."

    What's your opinion on that quote?
    It sounds like something my enemy would say.

    Yeah, I have an enemy now, another INFJ. Only he's become really messed up and abusive towards the people around him... it seems like some kind of shadow Se thing. He wasn't like this before, it's a recent change I don't like... I hope he grows out of it.

    He has this little Skype chat, and he kicks people out whenever they offend him, and then "forgives" them and lets them back in after he's finished criticizing them to everyone and letting them leak it to them in PM so they can apologize and feel humiliated. In it, he tries to stir people up against whoever he has an issue with.

    He has this attitude that he deserves love because he tells it like it is, and he's not afraid of being hated. He acts in ways that certainly make people hate him. And the most annoying part is, even though he's done incredibly reprehensible things, he always managed to get people back on his side by playing the victim, and I'm to a point where I'm disgusted that others are still okay with him. I mean, he openly admits to doing all sorts of awful things, and then somehow convinces everyone that they're not REALLY so awful and that anyone who says they are is just "causing drama."

    So, this sounds like something he would say to justify treating people the way he does. You don't even want to know what sort of behaviors this guy wants legalized... but he makes alarmingly good arguments for them, and it freaks me out to see how messed up and brainwashed all his associates become after just a few months with him. I can tell when someone is hanging out with him, because they begin to develop a similar bad attitude and interests... it usually proves to be the case.

    Anyway, my opinion on the quote is that it seems like an attempt to justify doing things that people hate, on purpose, and making it sound like you deserve to be loved for your courage rather than hated for your cruelty. So it's actually incredibly self-serving and manipulative. I've certainly seen the attitude it could create.

    I counter with this. "If you're NOT afraid to be hated, then you don't truly value other people." If you really cared about them, I mean, you'd try to avoid making them hate you. Even if having some of them hate you meant you'd get more love from the rest, you should still value the discomfort and pain of those who would hate you, enough not to get that love at their expense.

  4. #34
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    i love this quote, precisely because it makes no sense on it's own, but the blank areas are so vague, so much so that our mind automatically fills up the blank assumptions and makes a conclusion about the quote accordingly anything within the quote. the interesting thing isn't the conclusion, its the blanks.

    here's a few interpretations i've seen just from skimming over the above posts:
    "if you won't let the demands of others shape you, don't be surprised when you don't meet them"
    "if you aren't capable of the emotion of hate, you aren't capable of the emotion of love"
    "if you don't have the balls to take the risk of being hated, don't expect the reward"
    "if you don't do things that would make you worthy of hate, you aren't worthy of love"
    etc'

    so, in that spirit, i'll add my own:
    "if you don't have the guts to acknowledge and see yourself when your actions have earned someone's hate, your loved ones deserve someone better then you".

  5. #35
    null Jonny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I dont know what the fuck its meant to mean.

    Loads of people hate me but I think I deserve to be loved whether or not that'd be the case, people hate me because they're wrong about shit and sort of know it but rationalise it and then I come along and they dont like how they begin to doubt their rationalisations and shit and it makes them hate me.

    I'm a righteous mofo. Although perhaps I am hated because I win the ladies hearts too.

    And being awesome. Average people hate the awesome.
    Are you sure about this? I've often observed that people will misjudge the beliefs of others, either due to inadequate effort on their part or misexplanation by the persons whose beliefs they are assessing. If that isn't the case, then the hate often stems from the manner in which the hated party chooses to refute those questionable beliefs. That said, reading the last two lines of this quote makes me think that, perhaps, you were being facetious with your entire answer, but perhaps not.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  6. #36
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cascadeco View Post
    Well, I think the essence/gist of the quote is trying to capture the idea of when we are fully 'ourselves', fully actualized, no apologies, just genuinely who we are, that we'll inevitably encounter people who dislike us, and also people who really like us. People who find us distasteful, and on the opposite end, people who are drawn to us. That none of us is ever going to appeal to every single person out there.
    OMG common sense! This should be the end of the discussion!
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  7. #37
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    I had interpreted it more like cascadeco and was surprised actually to see what extremely different takes on it many people came away with that I wouldn't have thought about.

    Maybe it's because I'm by nature too conciliatory/risk avoidant/looking for points of commonality to connect with first, to the point of not directly stating what I think until I'm very sure how others will react (I don't mind if it's negative, but I don't like surprises). I think as I've gotten older, I've realized that the price you pay for that comfort level is people not feeling strongly one way or the other about you, or really never getting to know you. Usually the more you put yourself out there, the more polarized others' feelings about you will be.

    I guess maybe I'd say that I agree with the sentiment of the quote (you have to take risks if you want people to know you), but not with the wording for some of the reasons already stated.

  8. #38
    Artisan Conquerer Halla74's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Udog View Post
    If you don't have the balls to be hated...then you don't deserve to be loved."
    I think this quote really boils down to the following:

    "Be true to yourself, and be genuine to others.
    Do not be concerned if others hate you, especially if you have done them no harm.
    Those who love you, love you for who you are."

    Quote Originally Posted by Udog View Post
    What's your opinion on that quote?
    It's interesting as it is direct, yet a little ambiguous.
    I don't necessarily think it takes courage to be a douchebag, and then to be hated by others because of acting like a fucktard.
    However, if none of that has gone on, and others simply hate you for no good reason at all, it takes courage to deal with that, and to just keep walking tall.



    -Halla74
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  9. #39
    Seriously Delirious Udog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iNtrovert View Post
    Your SO will hate you if you * insert unforgivable act here*. You want to do it but you refrain form doing it because you "don't have the balls" to be hated. So wouldn't the denial of you own personal desires to avoid being hated by those you care about make you worthy of love? Putting what you want aside and being considerate of others because you don't want them to think poorly of you makes you less worthy of love?
    Thanks for sharing how you read the quote. I like how you viewed it differently than others.

    My only concern is that you are making a point that most people tend to regret when they are on their death bed. One of the top regrets of the dying (THE top regret according to this article) is "I wish I'd had the courage to live a life true to myself, not the life others expected of me."

    I personally instinctively want to agree with you, but I'm not sure how to reconcile your point with the above.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffywolf View Post
    Not very enneagram 9, is what I think. The quote doesn't resonate with me, I don't see the correlation between not being afraid to be hated and being deserving of love.
    Yeah, I think the quote really caught my eye because it's so "anti-E9". I had the same reaction, but didn't want to dismiss it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    So, this sounds like something he would say to justify treating people the way he does. [...]

    Anyway, my opinion on the quote is that it seems like an attempt to justify doing things that people hate, on purpose, and making it sound like you deserve to be loved for your courage rather than hated for your cruelty. So it's actually incredibly self-serving and manipulative. I've certainly seen the attitude it could create.
    Considering the source of this quote, that is an excellent point. I think you're on to something with that.

  10. #40
    Senior Member Ism's Avatar
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    I think it's pretty dumb and I don't like it, lol.


    Buuuutt...

    Quote Originally Posted by cascadeco View Post
    Well, I think the essence/gist of the quote is trying to capture the idea of when we are fully 'ourselves', fully actualized, no apologies, just genuinely who we are, that we'll inevitably encounter people who dislike us, and also people who really like us. People who find us distasteful, and on the opposite end, people who are drawn to us. That none of us is ever going to appeal to every single person out there.
    I think this is true.

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