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  1. #81
    Senior Member bluebell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    well now I'm interested to know if people feel comfortable being naked in front of other people. Is it silly to feel uncomfortable being naked or semi-undressed in front of non-intimates? Do you walk to your mailbox in your bra and underwear? Would you think it was strange for someone to do that? I don't know very many people who are that confident in their bodies who are willing to put it on display like that. More power to them and if they're confident enough to do that fine, but I'm not.

    And the same way you feel uncomfortable and wanting to hide because of unwanted remarks is they way I feel when men are in the dressing room. Even if it's not happening, I feel like there's some type of silent assessment of my body. I'm not the type of person that would strip down to my underwear at a party or take my top off at a bar (I've seen that happen). I resent being made to feel unreasonable or prudish because I think it is a big deal that there's a man in the dressing room.
    I did actually write this but deleted before posting. I would never ever walk out of the cubicle wearing a bathing suit or revealing clothing. And yes, I do have more hang ups from women looking at me and commenting at me (from my past). But... they're my hang ups. I don't expect the world to change for me. And I'm not sure what part of my post implied I'm comfortable walking out half-naked into the public part of a dressing room?

    That said, if I was in an all-woman clothing store (and for the sake of arguement, let's assume males are forbidden to even enter this hypothetical store), I would not be expecting women to be walking out of the cubicles in their underwear or half dressed. In fact, if they were, I'd walk straight out of the shop and never come back. That's way more intrusive for me than unisex change rooms. For me, it comes down to respecting boundaries. We each have our own boundaries and what we're comfortable with. I guess I'm trying to say - don't assume your boundaries are the same for all women. What bugs you - I'm fine with. And what you're fine with - bugs me.

    And for the record, I actually buy nearly all of my bathing suits from sports warehouses (because they sell more practical swimwear that you can actually swim in and dive without bits coming adrift). Those places have unisex change rooms and tend to be male-dominated. It's never occurred to me to feel uncomfortable trying on swimwear there because I try that on in the cubicles with a locked door, just like I do in women's stores.
    ...so much smoke pouring out of each chromosome.

  2. #82
    Senior Member Dom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    You aren't being a prude. A prude is someone who takes on ridiculous or false modesty. I don't think anything you have described fits that definition, but I understand the resentment at feeling that way. People act like simple modesty is anitquated notion or something.

    Anyway, if one has already shown their bits to the world, then what is so special about sharing initmacy with a lover? There's something very special about sharing something that is kept very private with someone very close. That would lose its very specialness in the let all hang out there world!
    sigh... If my comments suggested that I think people should happily walk around the store naked, to find the size they need, then I'm sorry I misrepresented myself. But being concerned that someone on the other side of a curtain or door is breaching your modesty, when YOU choose whether to emerge naked or not is irrational and belongs to another age.

  3. #83
    heart on fire
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    In otherwords, I just think everyone needs to seriously relax about this nakedness/looklike/attractiveness insanity that apparently 90% of female ego's are dependent on. While that is a horrid generalisation, it is what you certainly implied about yourself.

    I don't think she meant her whole ego depends on it, just that there ought to be certain places that are safe from prying male eyes and judgments. Like dressing rooms or restrooms.

    Also I have noted that women certainly make silent assements of other womens bodies... much more than men do and more harshly.
    If you don't understand the differences here between remarks made by women and those made by men to heterosexual woman, then I cannot help!

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dom View Post
    But being concerned that someone on the other side of a curtain or door is breaching your modesty, when YOU choose whether to emerge naked or not is irrational and belongs to another age.
    There is nothing extreme or irrational about expecting that men should not come beyond the gates or door to a designated ladies dressing room area. They provide chairs outside.

  5. #85
    Senior Member Dom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    I don't think she meant her whole ego depends on it, just that there ought to be certain places that are safe from prying male eyes and judgments. Like dressing rooms or restrooms.



    If you don't understand the differences here between remarks made by women and those made by men to heterosexual woman, then I cannot help!
    My comments were about women making judgements, something Bluebell brought up, and it was simply to suggest that excluding men wouldn't save someone from appraising eyes.

    Seriously I think everyone needs to relax. Like I said someone crude and rude enough to make a comment or judgement based only on what they think you look like in some clothes that you may have picked up, perhaps even int the wrong size for, is displaying that they are not worth you worrying about.

    Though I accept that is easier said than done.

  6. #86
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dom View Post

    In otherwords, I just think everyone needs to seriously relax about this nakedness/looklike/attractiveness insanity that apparently 90% of female ego's are dependent on. While that is a horrid generalisation, it is what you certainly implied about yourself.

    Also I have noted that women certainly make silent assements of other womens bodies... much more than men do and more harshly.
    Even in cultures where people walk around naked there is some taboo about some part of the human body, a foot or hair or something is still left in reserve.

    To say just get over it, well yeah I wish that was so but it's not and it's not going to not be the case anytime soon. And yes, women are much meaner in their commentary about other women's bodies than men are, but there's something about a man saying it that hits harder than another woman. I don't know what that difference is but it's there as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by bluebell View Post
    That said, if I was in an all-woman clothing store (and for the sake of arguement, let's assume males are forbidden to even enter this hypothetical store), I would not be expecting women to be walking out of the cubicles in their underwear or half dressed. In fact, if they were, I'd walk straight out of the shop and never come back. That's way more intrusive for me than unisex change rooms. For me, it comes down to respecting boundaries. We each have our own boundaries and what we're comfortable with. I guess I'm trying to say - don't assume your boundaries are the same for all women. What bugs you - I'm fine with. And what you're fine with - bugs me.
    Yes, I agree...we've all got different tolerance levels for what we find acceptable. I'm not trying to make my tolerance level be everyone else's. In this hypothetical store where men are forbidden, I wouldn't mind if another woman walked around undressed and perhaps I have a greater tolerance for that. I'd liken it to a locker room in that situation.

  7. #87
    Senior Member Dom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    There is nothing extreme or irrational about expecting that men should not come beyond the gates or door to a designated ladies dressing room area. They provide chairs outside.
    No they don't always and is irrelvant if they do, I've sat on those chairs so many times and felt uncomfortable, beign looked at from the corners of womens eyes as they went in and out! Though that you'll claim is my paranoia...

    Anyway this one time I had to wait for the woman I was with, she was a bit silly though also remarkably brave. While trying on swim suits she wanted my opinion and when the attendent wouldn't let me in to see so she brazenly walked out into the store! She was blushing bright red and I think the management were close to asking us to leave but she made her point.

  8. #88
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dom View Post
    No they don't always and is irrelvant if they do, I've sat on those chairs so many times and felt uncomfortable, beign looked at from the corners of womens eyes as they went in and out! Though that you'll claim is my paranoia...

    Anyway this one time I had to wait for the woman I was with, she was a bit silly though also remarkably brave. While trying on swim suits she wanted my opinion and when the attendent wouldn't let me in to see so she brazenly walked out into the store! She was blushing bright red and I think the management were close to asking us to leave but she made her point.
    Why do you think she was blushing so? Could it possibly be because she felt embarrassed about having people see her? And she was in a bathing suit for that matter! This is where context matters. If she wore that exact bathing suit on a beach I doubt she'd be blushing the way she was.

  9. #89
    Senior Member Gen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    Yes, I agree...we've all got different tolerance levels for what we find acceptable. I'm not trying to make my tolerance level be everyone else's. In this hypothetical store where men are forbidden, I wouldn't mind if another woman walked around undressed and perhaps I have a greater tolerance for that. I'd liken it to a locker room in that situation.
    That's what I don't understand. I'm with Bluebell here, I'd be so much more uncomfortable with a bunch of women walking around naked than I would be with men standing in areas where people walk out clothed. I hate locker rooms, and being expected to be comfortable with getting naked in front of other women. At least with a dressing room, no one is watching me and I don't come out until I'm covered.

  10. #90
    Senior Member Dom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    Even in cultures where people walk around naked there is some taboo about some part of the human body, a foot or hair or something is still left in reserve.

    To say just get over it, well yeah I wish that was so but it's not and it's not going to not be the case anytime soon. And yes, women are much meaner in their commentary about other women's bodies than men are, but there's something about a man saying it that hits harder than another woman. I don't know what that difference is but it's there as well.
    In your experience have you ever heard a guy, who was hanging around a changing room, make a comment to anyone other than the woman he was with?

    And yes other cultures have their taboos, I never said I didn't think theirs irrational either, and serioulsy I'm not making a move or even suggesting that walking around naked should be considered as normal, people would get way too cold, but beign worried someone can see through a curtain or door is the stuff of marvel comics not reality.

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